scumble on 18/4/2007 at 08:53
Some (
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/story/0,,2059700,00.html) interesting commentary in the Grauniad this morning:
Quote Posted by Simon Jenkins
Whenever I see incidents such as Blacksburg I try to apply the doctrine of proportional response. They are exceptionally rare and unpredictable. Britain's tough gun control did not prevent the Hungerford or Dunblane massacres. More American children (some 3,000) may die by gunfire each year than the death toll on 9/11, far more than in any other developed country. This may be a function of a migratory society or an unstable community, though it is hard to dissociate it from lax gun laws. But it remains America's choice and America's business.
Meanwhile, Britain would do well to contemplate the soaring use of guns and knives on its streets. If the image of the American school is of armed policemen, that of Britain's inner cities is of grieving mothers and weeping girls laying wreaths on pavements. British policy on alcohol and drug abuse is more catastrophic in its consequences than in any other country, and is more lethal than America's gun laws. Barely a week passes without a report condemning the government's refusal to repeal the 1971 Misuse of Drugs Act, largely because of Tony Blair's fear of the press. His failure lies at the root of urban crime, social dislocation and prison overcrowding. The unregulated drugs market is ruled by violence as ruthlessly on the streets of London as in the fields of Helmand. Yet all Blair can do is tell the black community to "own up" to it.
jay pettitt on 18/4/2007 at 09:07
Quote Posted by Dia
But silly me; I forgot about the black market thing. Nope; as long as some one is selling them, someone's gonna buy them.
Banning isn't about banning per se, that would be silly; rather about empowering the police, whom we ask to go into dangerous situations and sort it out on our behalf, by removing shades of gray and uncertainty.
scumble on 18/4/2007 at 09:44
That really depends on whether the police are actually any good at turning up in time, unless you want to turn certain area into something like a militarised zone. Even then, there's no way to tell where the next incident is going to be.
I'm not sure what you're getting at about the police "removing shades of grey and uncertainty". Are the police always guaranteed to be reliable and effective?
Vivian on 18/4/2007 at 09:45
Is a point - knifing is all the rage in britain at the moment, so we've obviously got enough wierded people to compete. Thankfully, the hardware generally used is a bit more mundane (kitchen knives usually, shitty reactivated guns more rarely). I honestly think we'd have exactly the same problems as you guys in america if it was possible for civilians to buy anything other than hunting rifles.
The dunblane thing though, he can fuck right off his high horse and get his facts in order - that caused our banning civilian handguns.
Chimpy Chompy on 18/4/2007 at 10:00
Quote Posted by scumble
I'm not sure what you're getting at about the police "removing shades of grey and uncertainty". Are the police always guaranteed to be reliable and effective?
I think what he means is, possession of a gun gives the police a clear indicator that someone is up to no good.
Also I agree with Bacon: I think lax gun laws here could be disastrous. They might not be the cause of society's problems, but here at least they'd probably make those problems worse.
SubJeff on 18/4/2007 at 10:47
Can someone explain to me exactly why a nation needs the right to have guns? The only thing it'd be good for is aiding in the fight against a foreign invader. If the populace was going to rise up against an evil government I think they'd have done it by now. I think it's just about gun-love, which tbh I can understand, but which isn't really justifiable.
Gestalt on 18/4/2007 at 10:47
Quote Posted by Ghostly Apparition
It only hits home when it happens here.
That's pretty much what hitting home
is.
steo on 18/4/2007 at 11:45
I think what he meant is that tragedies at home get a completely disproportionate amount of attention compared to all the deaths that occur elsewhere in the world. 33 people dead is fuck all compared to how many innocent Iraqis get shot dead every day, not to mention how many people die for other stupid reasons. The same goes for terrorism - it is a heck of a lot less dangerous than roads, legal guns and swimming pools and yet an enormous amount of fuss is made about it.
AR Master on 18/4/2007 at 11:50
.
Vivian on 18/4/2007 at 12:02
Oranges are a sweeter and slightly larger cousin to the lemon