Video of what happens when you dont use a turn signal when going to the hospital... - by 37637598
heretic on 4/2/2008 at 02:00
Quote Posted by The Alchemist
Wow, that's extremely perceptive. Where'd you get your med degree? Shit, I've gone to the hospital for some serious shit and you better believe I was fidgetting and testy as fuck. LOL HE CAN STILL WALK WITH HIS CANE TOTALLY NOT IN NEED OF MEDICAL HELP. Dude, he has to walk with a fucking cane. Hint numero uno.
I wasn't implying anything other than the fact that he was observable from the officers and the cameras position. Don't try to read between the lines so much, your eyes might pop.
SubJeff on 4/2/2008 at 02:29
Quote Posted by heretic1dg
The fact is, there is nothing to indicate that this was one of those situations, however there
is quite an indication otherwise.
The fact is that the ONLY thing that this cop could "diagnose" through the window would have been massive trauma to the upper body. Heart attacks, pulmonary embolism, hell almost ANY thing classed as a medical emergency could have been happening to that guy and the cop would not know. And even if you are in an emergency situation that doesn't necessarily stop you from getting up and hitting someone with a cane. I've seen people with fractured hips (a mortal wound btw) walking around.
Shut up. There is no case for the cop to make any "diagnosis" here.
And to make it worse he then tackles the guy to the ground! There are plenty of medical emergencies that would have gone past the point of possibility for full recovery because of this action and the time wasting here. Even if he had been calm and nice about it the time wasting and jobsworthyness was unnecessary.
And fyi - there are many medical conditions that warrant a speedy admission to hospital but which do not present with obviously life-threating "Oh crap call an ambulance" features.
jtr7 on 4/2/2008 at 02:41
There's also the possibility that the condition came on while they were already in traffic and she just detoured to the hospital. I thought it was more commonly understood that--to a cop--the getting out of the vehicle is a bad move, explaining oneself before you have been addressed is a bad move, not listening to the cops instructions is a bad move, telling the cop what to do is a bad move, denying the very acts one is engaged in is a bad move....
But yeah, the cop was way out of line. It's not an either/or situation. All involved parties done screwed up.
heretic on 4/2/2008 at 03:30
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
The fact is that the ONLY thing that this cop could "diagnose" through the window would have been massive trauma to the upper body. Heart attacks, pulmonary embolism, hell almost ANY thing classed as a medical emergency could have been happening to that guy and the cop would not know. And even if you are in an emergency situation that doesn't necessarily stop you from getting up and hitting someone with a cane. I've seen people with fractured hips (a mortal wound btw) walking around.
Shut up. There is no case for the cop to make any "diagnosis" here.
And to make it worse he then tackles the guy to the ground! There are plenty of medical emergencies that would have gone past the point of possibility for full recovery because of this action and the time wasting here. Even if he had been calm and nice about it the time wasting and jobsworthyness was unnecessary.
And fyi - there are many medical conditions that warrant a speedy admission to hospital but which do not present with obviously life-threating "Oh crap call an ambulance" features.
No shit Sherlock.
The cop needn't make a diagnosis FFS, and why is diagnosis in quotes? I sure as hell didn't use that word, nor did I imply what it entails. What I was getting at is that all this cop needs to do is to prove he acted rationally. Since the guy in question was in plain view, the cop may very well have done just that given the info he had at the time. Cops are not expected to believe everything they hear, or take situations at face value.
..and yeah, how dare the cop tackle a guy to the ground after said guy breaks a cane over his head.
SubJeff on 4/2/2008 at 04:01
Quote Posted by fett
And I refuse to believe (or shudder to think) that the cop attempted to make an
accurate diagnosis of the man's medical condition through the rear glass of the car, and then acted (or fail to act) based on that diagnosis.
Your response:
Quote Posted by heretic1dg
It doesn't have to be accurate, only rational. Also, not rear glass...driver side window which appears to have been rolled down. The view through the rear works as well though. The man is clearly animated inside, twisting in his seat and pointing his hands, leaning back and forth.
There is a differance, were it was an emergency situation where someone's life was in danger I'd be in total agreement with you. The fact is, there is nothing to indicate that this was one of those situations, however there
is quite an indication otherwise.
If that isn't making an assumption about a diagnosis I don't know what is. You post explicitly states that the cop doesn't need to make an accurate diagnosis, just a rational one. You don't have to have used the word to be talking out something, and if fact YOU have made diagnostic assumptions here.
My assertion is that the cop did not make a rational
choice. There would have been little difference in getting this guy into the hospital in terms of him dealing with this traffic violation issue, but there is a potential for medical harm using the method he chose.
How on earth has someone being in plain view got anything to do with this?
And diagnosis was in quotes because the day someone can make a diagnosis on an eyeball in that situation is the day hell freezes over, much less this idiot cop.
heretic on 4/2/2008 at 04:30
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
My assertion is that the cop did not make a rational
choice. There would have been little difference in getting this guy into the hospital in terms of him dealing with this traffic violation issue, but there is a potential for medical harm using the method he chose.
And diagnosis was in quotes because the day someone can make a diagnosis on an eyeball in that situation is the day hell freezes over, much less this idiot cop.
Getting him to the hospital when? The cop was too busy dealing with the confrontational driver by the time this came up. You do know she refused to pull over well before arriving at the hospital right? From a cop's perspective her behavior consisted of one warning flag after another. Refusing to pull over, leaving her car, walking toward the patrol vehicle/officer. Past this point, if the passenger did not
appear injured he had no reason to drop his pursuit.
No matter how much you or anyone else hates cops you have to understand that they can't approach situations like Amway salesman.
As far as the diagnosis tangent, if you are going to get stuck on a strawman at least make up your own.
SubJeff on 4/2/2008 at 07:35
Strawman? What strawman? I just showed you where you made comment on diagnosis.
What do you mean "when"? Right then, when else? :confused:
I don't hate cops, I don't like idiots though, and especially ones in positions of power. It doesn't matter whether she refused to pull over or not - if my relative needed medical attention asap I wouldn't pull over if a cop tried to pull me near the hospital and if you would do any different you're an idiot or you don't really care about your relatives.
In the context of "going to the hospital" it is perfectly reasonable, and also reasonable to get out of your car. She doesn't approach the cop, she stands there to explain things which is perfectly acceptable in a situation of urgency.
All of this is common sense and one would expect a police officer to possess the ability to see this - failure to do so renders someone unfit for the job in my opinion.
fett on 4/2/2008 at 14:08
heretic - have you ever had an honest to god medical emergency? I once drove 90mph (literally) to the hospital when my wife was hemorrhaging from a tubal miscarriage. At another time, she did the same because I was having a 'cardiac event'. In both situations, we each looked perfectly healthy - sitting up straight in the car, talking, gesturing, etc. If we had been passed out, an ambulance would have been necessary, but short of that, we forewent the expense (which as I've mentioned before is astronomical, even with insurance).
I can tell you that if a cop had flashed me on the way there - I would not have stopped, and my wife wouldn't have either, because the situations were both life threatening, regardless of how they looked. My priority was to get her to a doctor asap and neither the cops nor god himself was going to stop me because every minute was precious in that situation. My wife was also in extreme pain, but if some cop was getting between me and a wheelchair, or her and a doctor, she would have kicked him in the balls and kept going.
What you're not getting here is that when someone goes to the ER, they do so for a reason - an urgent reason usually. Much more urgent than fucking around with a cop over a turn signal. The woman didn't refuse to deal with the violation, she only wanted to do it after she had taken care of the more important thing - her injured husband. She plainly stated that to the cop, but he kept shouting her down because he wanted to create a 'situation'. Her actions were perfectly legitimate, and I would hope that if you were injured, your loved one would act as quickly as possible to help you, and let nothing get in their way.
The woman may very well have been trying to get out of a ticket, but it's both idiotic and dangerous for the cop to assume that is the case when he's been told that someone is injured - once it's established (BY A FUCKING DOCTOR, NOT THE COP) that the man is ok, or at least has been admitted, then he could have easily ticketed the driver. She wasn't going anywhere or trying to escape the scene.
I don't know - either you've never been scared that a loved one might die if YOU don't hurry up, or you've never been legitimately harassed by a tough-guy wannabe cop and don't recognize one when you see him. Because that's what's going on with this prick.
Matthew on 4/2/2008 at 14:54
Obvious when one thinks about it, but it never really clicked with me that US citizens would have to pay for the ambulance as well as the treatment.
SubJeff on 4/2/2008 at 15:01
Yeah, I totally forgot about that too. You can, btw, be charged for ambulance abuse here. Everytime you use an ambulance your Primary Care Trust is charged for it and if you use them for non-emergency stuff alot you eventually get the bill I think. I've met at least one patient who doesn't go to their GP because they'd have to cough up for all the ambulance trips to A&E for paracetamol they've taken.
In any case - I don't think the money is the issue here, someone's health was potentially in danger. Hope this never happens to you heretic.
