jstnomega on 16/3/2006 at 03:32
Gives me the itch to fire up JFK Reloaded or Deus Ex.
Epos Nix on 16/3/2006 at 04:01
Quote:
What we have are records of who boarded the planes,
video of them boarding,
eyewitness accounts from passengers who ultimately died on the planes, records of the hijackers recieving flight training,
inflight recordings, the transponders being turned off to make the planes invisable to radar
(
http://911research.wtc7.net/planes/evidence/missing.html)
It seems the government has the evidence, and I won't dispute that it probably does point to who they say it points to, but why keep it confidential when it could clear up this whole situation?
DarkViper on 16/3/2006 at 04:51
I feel like I just got done watching a "rise up against/overthrow the government" anti-american video or something. I truly liked the part at the end where they wave the American flag and tell us to question everything and have the courage to do something about it or whatever :laff:
So if every single bit they claim actually is true... the only thing we could all possibly do is overthrow the government. I mean, from the sounds of the video, they want more than for us just to "yell at them" because - again - if it really is that corrupt, just telling everyone "That's not right! We know what you're up to!" isn't going to solve anything.
The guy's voice was quite. annoying. One of those dudes who thinks he is absolutely right about everything in the world, cannot be wrong, and will befriend you only to steal your dignity and everything else you have - then set you free into the world after convincing you to give him your wallet.
A few things about those events may be unexplainable and questionable no doubt about that... but you can't chalk everything up to "evidence" by lots of people who don't agree on things... and then take the side of one of them. So the documentary cites "a so called expert" and then some other moron disputes what he says... but the moron they picked is right.
Try this: Get a crowd of 30 people together and stage a horrific event in front of them, and then ask them all to describe what they saw. Guaranteed that not all of them will match up, and some will "see" stuff that never was there/never happened. Conspiracy theorists know this... and they make their living selling books/documentaries/screenplays/scripts to the public.
No doubt in my mind that the government covers up stuff. Some things really are for the sake of national security... The U.S. is a pretty huge target for hate mail these days. I seriously doubt they'd orchestrate everything that happened on 9/11, but I also believe they may have covered up a thing or two concerning the Pentagon. IMO, any "terrorist's" ears are going to perk up upon mention of the Pentagon. So they have their reasons... whatever they are... and people are prone to keep asking "why? why? why?" over and over again which would cause a never-ending loop of problems. So they keep their mouths shut. As someone else already mentioned in this thread, we'll know when we need to know. Documents are classified for a reason beyond our knowledge. It's not like pressuring them or "exposing" them is going to do any good.
Tocky on 16/3/2006 at 04:54
Well the government appears to have shut down your link, Epos, so it must be a conspiracy. Thing is we all saw the coverage after 911. We did hear the inflight recordings and passenger phone calls ad infinitum. We watched the discussions and viewed much of the evidence from every angle day after day. We were tranfixed by discussions of the reinforcement materials in the pentagon. We heard expert after expert discuss every detail. And now that denizens of the net have found things to warp to fit thier own agenda we are supposed to believe government is evil supergenuis?
Incompetence I can believe. Overzealous overreaching I can believe. Taking advantage of the situation to pursue a hardline policy certain members were predisposed to isn't much of a stretch. But this? Please.
Afghanistan is better off under northern alience rule than Taliban. Iraq is better off under democratic rule than the minority Sunni, although I wouldn't have sacrificed so much just to get it to the point where the Sunnis are willing to ally themselves with foriegn insurgents in a bid for power. If there weren't oil and terrrorists we would be letting them wallow in warlords and dictators. And likely still selling them weapons to do it with.
That's it. That is bad enough.
Epos Nix on 16/3/2006 at 05:12
Link works for me. Here's a Google cache link for you: (
http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:3LQJv9FC2QIJ:911research.wtc7.net/sept11/evidence.html+911+research+missing+evidence&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1) Clicky
Quote:
Incompetence I can believe. Overzealous overreaching I can believe. Taking advantage of the situation to pursue a hardline policy certain members were predisposed to isn't much of a stretch. But this? Please.
So why exactly is the idea of a government using psychological catalysts to further their own agenda really so hard to believe? How many times do we have to hear the phrase "history repeats itself" before we start to believe it? Again, I don't give the idea much credence either, only because there isn't enough hard evidence yet, but history has shown us time and again that these things
are possible; motivated power-seekers will do amazingly atrocious things to further their own agendas. I think they call that sort of thing 'evil', and evil people have a weird penchant for becoming world leaders, dig?
Shug on 16/3/2006 at 05:15
Tocky, I don't know if you're pointing the finger anywhere in my direction but you'll forgive me for not agreeing with your stance because a) there's no "we" - although I was hardly blase about the whole affair, I'm not American - b) I'm not in here saying the government staged the whole thing, but it appears not EVERYTHING checked out and let's face it, it's hardly a new idea that they exploited the damn thing in the first place to get where they were heading.
I'll do you the courtesy of not stereotyping you into a KILL TERRORISM YEAAAHhHHh person, but yeah.
The ending of that Loose Change video is over the top but the suggestion that Bush needs to go is probably a valid one. It seems he's ploughed the country through so much shit everyone's just forgotten about the old stuff and are a bit like "he's bad but WE NEED A STRONG LEADER", which is a pretty sad indication of the opposition party's front man
Agent Monkeysee on 16/3/2006 at 05:23
Quote Posted by Shug
The ending of that Loose Change video is over the top but the suggestion that Bush needs to go is probably a valid one.
You hardly need to make an argument that the US was behind 9/11 to build a case that Bush needs to go.
SubJeff on 16/3/2006 at 08:31
Quote Posted by Tocky
, the transponders being turned off to make the planes invisable to radar
I'd just like to pick on this one point because it is indicitive of many believers of the official story. People hear and parrot things without thinking about them. If making a plane invisible to radar was as simple as that don't you think that radar is completely and utterly useless? LOL Migs all had transponders off sorry america cold war lost. Come on.
I'm not saying that everything is lies or that Loose Change is all true, but there is alot in there that you have to wonder about. Similarly there is alot you have to be sceptical about. They fail in the way they present certain issues and facts (if they are facts). White marking on the Pentagon lawn before the crash along the exact trajectory of the plane? OMG CONSPIRACY! It's things like this that make me go :weird: What is the point of that? It's unneccesary and it's lazy.
Swiss Mercenary on 16/3/2006 at 09:16
I don't know about anyone else, but if I was willing to kill 4,000 people to further my lolitical agenda, my train of thought would probably not have gone along the lines of:
"Planes. Yesss. Planes. 'MAKE HIM FLY, MOMMY!'"
"And misslesss. Yesss. Lotsss of missless."
"And Pentagon! YES! THE PENTAGON! Oooh, I'm clever!"
"And let's forge a mile-long paper trail of flight training records for the people we accuse of doing it! We can't do it without a paper trail, no?"
Epos Nix on 16/3/2006 at 09:25
I found the initial "fake" Osama footage pretty compelling so I searched a bit for the actual footage. (
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/osamatape.html) Here's a site that contains a short summary of Osama's video history. Note that the second video released by him, one dismissed by the Bush administration as "propaganda", has bin Laden admitting that terrorism caused by him would sooner be aimed at Israel than the US (of course directly contradicting the first video's "confession").
