OrbWeaver on 7/11/2005 at 20:59
The thing I had to get used to with Doom 3 is that there is no important mesh/brush distinction (there are little details such as visibility and optimisation, but no "always use meshes for detail" like in T3Ed).
Once you learn this it is a lot quicker to create archways and windows with patches, without having to reach for your modelling program. It is also vastly easier to align repeating textures on a patch, rather than have to create a UV map and get loads of pixellation because the whole object has a single image wrapped around it.
I do miss the Actor Hierarchy though, Doom 3 really has nothing similar and trying to create something as simple as a swinging light requires a whole load of manual in-editor operations.
Renzatic on 9/11/2005 at 18:05
Quote Posted by Ziemanskye
Yeah I'll give it a go, but I'm going to finish my TDS map first (one project at a time, else none of it'll get finished). I just assumed Doom3 would go through a similar CSG-BSP-VIS-Light kind of sequence as HL/Source does, so I may be (pleasantly) supprised by not being able to break the world.
You can get random BSP problems like in Ued, though you'll almost have to take the time and go out of your way to make em. The best way to do it is to CSG subtract really complicated shapes, which'll break the geometry up into really tiny weirdly shaped pieces. If you have about 15-20 brushes intersecting in a small space, it'll freak the engine out and you'll get a nice sized hole.
Ziemanskye on 9/11/2005 at 18:15
Well, I consider Leaks to be BSP holes, and the DoomEdit or radiant stuff I've seen says they're definately possible.:p
Not that I seriously intend to try to break the engine anyway. I like things I build to work, it's so much less frustrating.
Renzatic on 9/11/2005 at 18:24
Quote Posted by Ziemanskye
Well, I consider Leaks to be BSP holes, and the DoomEdit or radiant stuff I've seen says they're definately possible.:p
Yeah, they're definately possible...and you always seem to end up with 5 or 6 no matter how careful you are. ;)
New Horizon on 9/11/2005 at 18:29
RANZATICH, where have you been man! :) Get over to the dark mod board boy.
Renzatic on 9/11/2005 at 18:53
NAW!
I'm still around, same thing I said last time still applies. Right now I'm spending all my modding time learning Lightwave and Maya...soon I'm gonna be building and showing off BIG BERTHA.
OrbWeaver on 9/11/2005 at 20:06
Quote Posted by Ziemanskye
Well, I consider Leaks to be BSP holes, and the DoomEdit or radiant stuff I've seen says they're definately possible.:p
Leaks are not the same as BSP holes, because they do not appear randomly and unpredictably based on the complexity of geometry. Leaks occur because you have not sealed the map correctly, irrespective of how much complexity you put inside it.
Ziemanskye on 9/11/2005 at 20:29
In HL I had plenty of leaks caused by complex brushes.
It would proudly declare
*** LEAK LEAK LEAK LEAK ***
in the errror messages, and I had sealed the area right, so I just lump these things together. I wouldn't be too surprised if Doom3 is distinctly less prone to such things though.
If I'm wrong about it well, either way it's me messing up, so what difference does it make?
OrbWeaver on 9/11/2005 at 21:04
Quote Posted by Ziemanskye
If I'm wrong about it well, either way it's me messing up, so what difference does it make?
The difference is that leaks are caused by a well-defined and specific error in map creation, which is easy to understand and correct (although locating it can be difficult), while BSP holes are caused by general randomness in the compilation algorithm which the level designer does not control.
I don't know about vanilla Unreal, but in T3Ed BSP holes occur so easily that it would be very hard to blame the designer for messing up when the algorithm just cannot cope with detailed (but physically consistent) geometry.
Ziemanskye on 9/11/2005 at 21:35
Cool.
And I can definately agree on the T3Ed being f*ed up about it - Schism was a minefield of BSP holes, to the extent they probably controlled the design more than any plans I had.
Weird how my current project isn't splintered all over the place, considering it's brush work is a lot more complex for the most part, but I suppose it's just building to some kind of critical (and crippling) mass.
I never had a problem with UE2, but I haven't done as much with that as with Flesh.
