The_Dude on 16/7/2005 at 16:10

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Enough of this pointless argument. The Thief concept is not realistic nor was it meant to be. Water arrows, gas arrows and moss arrows are just fantasy elements so attempting to make sense of them in the real world is of no value. If Ottoj55 wants them to cause damage in his mission then so be it (though I can't imagine many will follow him).

In real life people don't have hit points; it makes no sense that guards etc are as fast and strong whether they have all their health or just one hit point left. Thief is fun, the gameplay is fun, if it was realistic it would be dull. No?

This thread has totally gone off the point.... :tsktsk:

belboz on 16/7/2005 at 17:16

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The condition on servants is wrong, their default for investigate should be 'don't investigate', and to flee to the nearest guard if something suspicious heard too often and/or if they see the player. It which point they should inform the guard, and the guard should run to the last place the player was seen, then start searching.
This exists in thief dark, but was removed in thief 2.
Servants should also not attack you, but run to the nearest guard as they have the weapons.
Flee locations should exist on standing guards, not knocked out ones, or a location where there should be a guard. eg the servant in 'life of the party' if you knocked out the servant in the kitchen that recieves the message that another servant has seen an intruder, the servant who delivers the message, still delivers it to an empty space even thou the other servant isn't there.
so fleepoint should be in a metaproperty that can be added to an AI, that is removed when knockout stim triggered.

R Soul on 16/7/2005 at 17:42

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Some archetypes have incorrect material tags:
Many things under Physical > Furniture > Chair > VictorianChairs need the MatCarpet metaproperty. For some things it's obvious, but there are some chairs that are a combination of wood and fabric, so change the materials at your own discretion (they way I see it, players are more likey to jump onto a chair that hit it with a weapon, so most things should be MatCarpet).

Physical > Household > Kitchen
Pan and Jar need the MatMetal metaproperty. They currently inherit MatWood, which is needed for many of the other objects.
Knife and ButcherKnife should probably be Metal as well.


Throwing things
Certain types of player were disappointed that in Thief 2 you could no longer throw around the metal kitchen jars, and no doubt that you couldn't stack them :sly:

Edit the Physical > Household > Kitchen > Jar archeytpe and Add the following properties:
Engine Features > FrobInfo (WroldAction: Move; ToolAction: Move)

Physics > Model > Attributes (Just click on OK, the default values are probably fine)

Physics > Model > Controls (Deselect 'Location' & 'Rotation')

Physics > Model > Type (Change Type to 'Sphere', leave the other things alone)


If you want to be able to throw pans around as well as jars, you can add the above properties to the Jar archeytpe, or make Pan a child of Jar so it inherits.

With 'TallPan' and 'Skillet', the Rest Axes in their Physics > Attributes property should only include +Z and -Z.


All Pans and Jars have rather generic object names, so you could change them and add relevant entries in Strings\objnames.str

R Soul on 16/7/2005 at 18:41

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They look like metal.

And I've got metal jars in my real-world kitchen.

Eshaktaar on 16/7/2005 at 21:47

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The frobbable skulls are set up wrong: When you want to throw them, you have to click twice before they leave your hands. Their FrobInfo Tool Action is set to Move whereas it should be [None].