RippedPhreak on 4/12/2024 at 03:47
Quote:
Domestic law enforcement isn't one of the military's missions but Trump wants to make it one.
Source? If you're referring to Trump wanting to put the military on the southern border to stop foreign invaders, that is not "domestic law enforcement."
heywood on 4/12/2024 at 11:26
Use Google. It's been all over the internet since 2020 when Trump wanted to deploy the military against BLM. During this campaign, Trump said multiple times that he wants to use the military against the domestic "enemy within" which is anyone protesting or organizing for the left. He's not referring to illegal immigrants. Of course he wants to use the military for border control too.
RippedPhreak on 4/12/2024 at 13:20
I know Trump suggested the blue state governors should call out the National Guard to contain the 2020 riots, which seemed fairly reasonable. But in the end, if Democrat governors and mayors want to let violent mobs trash their cities that's up to them. :thumb:
heywood on 4/12/2024 at 14:26
Trump didn't think it was up to them. He wanted to use the US military to put down BLM because the blue states weren't using the National Guard as he wanted them to. He was rebuffed by the military, because that's not one of their missions. Instead, he deployed DHS agents to set up counter-BLM operations in the cities. In most places, they operated from unmarked vehicles, wearing camo with no identification or insignia, and were picking people up and detaining them in undisclosed locations. It was starting to sound a bit like FEMA in Deus Ex. He publicly fought with Oregon over jurisdiction all summer and then agreed to withdraw the feds right before the convention.
This time, Trump wants the US military at his disposal, unencumbered by the limitations we put on how to use a standing army, which we put there because the founders were opposed to or at least distrustful of standing armies. As if militarized federal law enforcement wasn't bad enough already.
RippedPhreak on 4/12/2024 at 15:04
Trump had DHS grab certain people who were attacking and damaging a federal courthouse. Because the mayor of that city would not bother to place police near it to protect it. Part of his "rebel resistance" against Trump I suppose.
But hey, at some point you have to throw up your hands and say that if the people in these cities WANT the riots, broken glass, fires and businesses driven out, then it's up to them. Certainly they re-elected the local and state officials who allowed it and cheered it on.
heywood on 4/12/2024 at 16:00
Well, it was more than a courthouse, they were deployed in dozens of cities. And yeah, I think states should have the right to protect the freedom of assembly of their citizens from a hostile federal government. If the people of Portland are OK with hosting a protest camp, that's their prerogative. Other cities and states took a different approach, which is fine too as long as they're not violating people's Constitutional rights. The President isn't empowered to take over a state with armed forces if he feels its citizens are misbehaving and getting away with it. The Constitution was written to limit that kind of federal overreach. We're going to fight this state's rights battle again soon over sanctuary city policies, and we fought it once before over desegregation.
Starker on 4/12/2024 at 16:33
As I've already posted here in the forums, the vast, vast majority of the BLM protests happened completely peacefully, with nobody getting injured or arrested and with no property damage whatsoever. In the small handful of protests that did get out of hand and got outside media attention as a result, oftentimes the violence was initiated by the police, who also beat on, shot at, and teargassed completely innocent bystanders and journalists. This was done completely unprovoked, clearly just for sport.
If there was anyone rioting, I would first point my fingers at the police (you can guess which ones). I've personally seen many incidents captured on video of completely unwarranted and absolutely brutal police violence against unarmed and unthreatening participants as well as random passersby, including children, women and elderly. For just a couple of examples, I've seen a homeless vet in a wheelchair getting his eye shot out and a child standing in a park getting shot in the head by a police sniper. There are videos of hundreds upon hundreds of incidents like these. Here's just one spreadsheet of police lawlessness happening at the time:
(
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/1/d/1YmZeSxpz52qT-10tkCjWOwOGkQqle7Wd1P7ZM1wMW0E)
RippedPhreak on 4/12/2024 at 17:21
You mean the police in Democrat-run cities, following orders from Democrat mayors and city councils? Hmmmm.....
Sounds like your side has some issues they need to clean up. Let me know when you've taken care of that.
Starker on 4/12/2024 at 19:32
I don't have many problems with the way our side runs the police. Yes, it could be better, but it's not like a ton of people get shot every day by the police in my country.
So, how much do Democrats run police stations in the US? How many of the superiors of the cops are Democrats? How many of the trainers? How much do these Democratic mayors give orders to the police day-to-day? The violence I've seen was mostly initiated by the cops themselves without any orders, and they did it with impunity, as they seemed to be absolutely sure that they are untouchable. And yes, there are undoubtedly some good apples as well, but it's the rotten ones that absolutely stand out and set the tone for the rest.
Yes, from what I've seen, places like New York have some of the worst policing culture out there. But it's hardly a matter of cities. I've seen the same problems with the police in various parts of Arizona and Texas and many rural places. I would say it's more a problem with the organisation and with how the whole system is set up in the first place in your country. Your police get next to no proper training, they are absolutely immune from prosecution, and they have the blue wall of silence and a culture of brutality. Y'know, the very thing BLM was protesting against and attempting to have changed?
demagogue on 4/12/2024 at 20:04
Stepping back, the cause of the protests was police brutality and impunity, and these people think the solution is military brutality and impunity. Terrific. Brilliant. That shouldn't escalate the situation and make it needlessly more violent.
