US Election Thread 2024

Starker on 14/11/2024 at 07:34

Quote Posted by RippedPhreak

I'm not exactly cheering for these picks but "qualified" means very little when the "qualified" people have run this country into the ground over the last 40 years or so.

Putting the most incompetent and unqualified people in charge is only a view you can afford to take if you don't care a lick about the future of your country and want to burn it all down and live in the ashes and rubble.

And it's not like it's particularly new, as recent US history has shown where it leads -- long expensive wars with nothing to show for it, flooding the politics with dark money, massive wealth transfer to the rich via tax cuts, mismanagement of disasters etc.

heywood on 14/11/2024 at 12:17

Last time, Trump tried filling his cabinet with competent people who were experienced leaders. He purged them. I don't think he liked being told he couldn't do something, or being corrected, or always being the dumbest guy in the room. So this time, he's filling his cabinet with intellectual equals. I need to watch Idiocracy again. It feels like it's coming true. Rubio isn't such a bad pick though.

RippedPhreak on 14/11/2024 at 13:42

Quote:

And it's not like it's particularly new, as recent US history has shown where it leads

WHOOSH. My point was, all that stuff happened while the government was staffed with the usual "qualified," "serious" people.

Quote:

We're already headed for a collapse and a whole lot of rubble. These are the "good old days" right now. Everything is going to get much, much worse in the next couple of decades and will keep on getting worse and worse, and worse. Decisions made over the last 50 years have guranteed it.

heywood on 14/11/2024 at 14:05

Care to explain what is causing you to have such an apocalyptic outlook? I don't agree that the country been run into the ground over the last 40 years. In every measure but debt this country and the people in it are doing far better than in 1984.

EDIT: I realize the gains have been unequal and created a new gilded age.

DuatDweller on 14/11/2024 at 17:46

Save Intel!
Buy it or merge it, but do something!

mxleader on 14/11/2024 at 19:56

Quote Posted by heywood

Anybody that was around in the 70's knows that even with inflation we are doing better now than in the 70's and even the 80's. When's the last time anyone has waited in line for hours for gas (excluding areas where natural disasters have occurred)? The stock market is at an all time high. The rich are getting richer, The middle class is disappearing, and we are on the brink of global war. What more do people want?

heywood on 14/11/2024 at 21:07

As a percentage of the population, the size of the middle class has shrunk from ~60% to ~50% over 4-5 decades. Meanwhile the rich are pulling away. The richest aren't just amassing wealth, they're also amassing the political power their wealth can buy, just like the late 1800s. And we just voted to advance that.

I also think we are on the brink of global war. But in order to stop that from happening, I think we need to handle it like we handled the Cold War and not repeat the mistakes that led to WWII. But we just voted for the opposite.

Another headline issue these days is the cost of living. Inflation was high after COVID, it's back down to a historically normal range now, but prices increases from 2 years ago were still a huge issue during the campaign. Despite that, we voted for a guy whose policies (tax cuts and tariff hikes) will raise inflation!

I guess my question is, if you think the US is headed for collapse, what do you think it's going to look like and what policies would prevent it?

Starker on 14/11/2024 at 21:25

Quote Posted by RippedPhreak

WHOOSH. My point was, all that stuff happened while the government was staffed with the usual "qualified," "serious" people.

WHOOSH indeed and for the past 20+ years, I might add. Who exactly was it that started massive wars that added trillions in debt? Was it the serious, qualified people? No, it was George War Criminal Bush. Who was it that mismanaged a pandemic, flaunting all safety precautions and holding superspreader events even as he was insisting it would soon go away and there's no reason to worry about it? Hmm, as it turns out, it was the guy who thought injecting disinfectant might be a great way to cure a virus.

On the other hand, who saw to a massive reduction of uninsured US citizens by putting a band-aid on the gaping wound that is your healthcare system? Who was it that made massive investments into the crumbling US infrastructure? Oh, would you look at that, it was the serious, qualified people.

And that's just some of the big picture stuff. The government takes care of so many things that are invisible to the people. It provides services that the private sector can't or wont do, such as timely tornado warnings. It manages risks that keep ordinary people from harm, such as ensuring food and product safety. It provides assistance to people in need, such as nutrition for children in deep poverty. Incompetent people being in charge makes all the bad things more likely to happen and the good things less likely to happen. The incompetent will try to sabotage all the things that are unprofitable and/or unimportant in their eyes, but can have massive impacts on the quality of life of ordinary people.

Also, even if US government collapse is inevitable, what kind of landing you get still depends a whole lot on the people piloting the plane. People who have no interest in governing, but instead want to burn down the government and destroy its institutions can only make it worse.

mxleader on 15/11/2024 at 00:39

Quote Posted by heywood

I also think we are on the brink of global war. But in order to stop that from happening, I think we need to handle it like we handled the Cold War and not repeat the mistakes that led to WWII. But we just voted for the opposite.

I don't think we have the same situations around the world that we did pre-WWII. Sure there are problems out there but it's not like countries like Japan and Germany are trying to take over the world. Also, what led up to the US involvement in WWII is a very complex thing so it would be difficult to compare then to now.

Quote Posted by heywood

Another headline issue these days is the cost of living. Inflation was high after COVID, it's back down to a historically normal range now, but prices increases from 2 years ago were still a huge issue during the campaign. Despite that, we voted for a guy whose policies (tax cuts and tariff hikes) will raise inflation!

I guess my question is, if you think the US is headed for collapse, what do you think it's going to look like and what policies would prevent it?

Inflation may have slowed to what is considered normal but prices for many things are still high compared to earnings.

What sort of collapse are you referring to because there are so many to choose from?

The stock market is healthy and there are tools in place to slow any kind of crash. Raw materials like fuel and building materials are holding up well. If you are referring to educational collapse we have been seeing that coming on more and more in recent years. The rioting from the left could come back again even worse than the first time.

Society changes over time and we are all in a different one from before the ending of the Cold War, then 9/11, the 2008 housing boom bubble bursting, and then again from Covid. Pulling the bulk of our troops out of the Middle East also creates an unstable atmosphere in that region that has far-reaching effects.

Times, they are a changin'...

Pyrian on 15/11/2024 at 01:34

Quote Posted by mxleader

Sure there are problems out there but it's not like countries like Japan and Germany are trying to take over the world.

Russia is literally chain invading and annexing neighbor after neighbor as we speak.

Quote Posted by mxleader

Inflation may have slowed to what is considered normal but prices for many things are still high compared to earnings.

Overall wages are up more than inflation, especially at the lowest income levels, and unemployment is way down. Inflation as a cause of things being unaffordable is overstated - although depending on where you live, housing would like a word. Harris had a plan for that (inadequate and mitigation, but there's only so much the Feds can and even should be doing in what is ultimately a regional NIMBY problem), Trump claims it'll magically go away because tariffs somehow.

Trump could do nothing and nothing could change economically and the Trump Pets in this thread will turn on a dime and be all like "BEST ECONOMY EVER BECAUSE TRUMP". As far as I'm concerned, that's the best case scenario, because if Trump does a fraction of what he's claiming he'll do, the economy will suffer, and y'all are still going to claim "BEST ECONOMY EVER" as it plummets. Hopefully he'll just find a handful of criminals to deport and slap a targeted tariff here and there and declare "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED". Hopefully.