Cipheron on 19/9/2024 at 04:06
Quote:
The early days were crucial to buy as much time and prepare as thoroughly as possible
Which was exactly what Trump was thinking for the entirely wrong reasons.
A large part of it in my view comes down to Trump's original re-election strategy. Trump's tax cuts and massive deficit spending cause a spike in the stock market. You can read around for why this wasn't sustainable, but from Trump's point of view, it didn't need to be - it just needed to sustain things long enough for him to win re-election in 2020.
So Covid coming along was bad news for his election plan, which is why he wanted it swept under the carpet as long as possible. He bet big on "buying time" but by that he was thinking that a real response could be delayed 6 months until the election, but he bet wrong.
This also explains why he flip-flopped on a vaccine and also tried to promote any miracle cure that came along. Anything to basically make it seem like there was no problem, no need to shut anything down or have a public health response.
Starker on 19/9/2024 at 06:03
Quote Posted by Discendo Vox
Notably Trump was anti-vaccine before he was pro-vaccine, before he was anti-vaccine; before his presidency, Trump infamously promoted the idea of vaccines causing autism ("Healthy young child goes to doctor, gets pumped with massive shot of many vaccines, doesn't feel good and changes - AUTISM. Many such cases!"). This was around the time he was developing a branded "personalized" dietary supplement. His alignment with some of the most self-serving and catastrophically harmful pseudoscience in modern history was always a clear synergy for him.
His vaccine denial is still not anywhere near RFK jr level where he actively goes out and tries to get people killed. Of course, if he manages to get elected and appoints RFK jr as the head of Health and Human Services, it's not like there would be much difference anyway. RFK jr is apparently already helping him to pick new leaders for the FDA, NIH, and CDC... (
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4887585-rfk-jr-trump-fda-nih-cdc/)
Cut that in half to account for all the conspiracy nuts and anti-government free thinkers that would have been undeterred in any case and once more in half for the Republican leadership that found it politically expedient to rail against any measures they saw as hampering economic activity. Even if Lord Dampnut had made all the right policy decisions at the right time and spent all of his political capital trying to convince his followers to heed them, the US is just too big for a federal response to have a significant effect to that extent. I'm fairly certain that local policies (and local politics) played a significant part in why the death toll was so much higher among Republicans.
Quote Posted by Nicker
The invasion was delayed by Friend Putin in order to boost Trump's electoral chances. The invasion of Ukraine happened because Trump and his cronies in the Senate and Congress blocked defence funding encouraged and signalled that Putin was free to go in, unopposed because Zelenski refused to invent dirt on Biden. Remember the "perfect phone call"? Trump's hands are soaked in Ukrainian blood. Even after he was fired he continued to use his minions in the house to block funding to Zelenski.
I think the invasion happened because of Putin's megalomania and because he has long thought the West is weak and in decline. Brexit and the election of Lord Dampnut undoubtedly reinforced that belief, but it's something he has always believed, if you follow his speeches and public statements. But if we start pointing fingers at Lord Dampnut, then we also have to start pointing fingers at Obama's red lines, Clinton's reset button, and Bush jr's soul-searching as well as decades of failed Russia policy.
Quote Posted by Nicker
And do you really think that Trump's secret meetings with Putin, Little Kimmy and Xi Jinping were bloodless? Like the CIA are going to admit that shit publicly?
Trump fucked US diplomacy and intelligence for the next generation. And people have doubtless dies for that.
Diplomacy yes, but intelligence we just don't know about and absence of any proof there is no point in speculating whether or not any deaths have occurred due to mishandling of classified information.
Discendo Vox on 19/9/2024 at 09:52
Quote Posted by Starker
His vaccine denial is still not anywhere near RFK jr level where he actively goes out and tries to get people killed. Of course, if he manages to get elected and appoints RFK jr as the head of Health and Human Services, it's not like there would be much difference anyway. RFK jr is apparently already helping him to pick new leaders for the FDA, NIH, and CDC... (
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4887585-rfk-jr-trump-fda-nih-cdc/)
This was largely from his staff keeping him distracted from direct involvement with these matters; the Trump administration appointee to run FDA, Scott Gottlieb, was unusual for an appointee in that he was knowledgeable about the agency and not particularly disruptive (this is because Gottlieb is basically aligned with slow, long-term pharma industry deregulation).
Quote Posted by Starker
Cut that in half to account for all the conspiracy nuts and anti-government free thinkers that would have been undeterred in any case and once more in half for the Republican leadership that found it politically expedient to rail against any measures they saw as hampering economic activity. Even if Lord Dampnut had made all the right policy decisions at the right time and spent all of his political capital trying to convince his followers to heed them, the US is just too big for a federal response to have a significant effect to that extent. I'm fairly certain that local policies (and local politics) played a significant part in why the death toll was so much higher among Republicans.
The cited report is about all health impacts, not just covid; I feel strongly that it's massively understating its outcomes.
Quote Posted by Starker
I think the invasion happened because of Putin's megalomania and because he has long thought the West is weak and in decline. Brexit and the election of Lord Dampnut undoubtedly reinforced that belief, but it's something he has always believed, if you follow his speeches and public statements. But if we start pointing fingers at Lord Dampnut, then we also have to start pointing fingers at Obama's red lines, Clinton's reset button, and Bush jr's soul-searching as well as decades of failed Russia policy.
The specific timing of the Russian invasion of Ukraine has more to do with domestic and regional pressures from the Putin regime than anything domestic to the US, including any aspect of US policy toward Russia.It's worth remembering this genocidal invasion was a continuation of a previous genocidal invasion of Ukraine and tied to Russia's ongoing efforts to undermine, sabotage, and consume neighboring countries. To a significant extent, early Russian messaging (from the days when the country believed the invasion would be an immediate success) strongly suggest that at even the highest levels, there's a serious problem with Putin increasingly consuming and believing his government's own propaganda materials.
Quote Posted by Starker
Diplomacy yes, but intelligence we just don't know about and absence of any proof there is no point in speculating whether or not any deaths have occurred due to mishandling of classified information.
I've already provided some fairly strong evidence about contemporaneous deaths.
Quote Posted by Vae
Now that Drumpf wants make it so illegals can't vote!...:grr:
Quiet, Orange Man!...Only wanting legitimate citizens to vote is racist!...:mad:
It's already illegal for noncitizens to vote in federal elections. There is no indication that the Democrats are registering "illegal voters" at all, let alone in the "tens of thousands". The SAVE Act appears to be some combination of messaging and exploiting, or if you're less skeptical, failing to recognize, that many states have really failed to roll out the REAL ID system, which keeps getting its timeline pushed back. In practice it's an attempt at suppression targeting younger voters and college students...and more budget brinkmanship from the Republicans, a party less interested in stable federal program funding.
This BPC article on the SAVE Act, while it has issues, provides some context on the issue. Again, there's already a federal law on this, and there's no sign of voter fraud involving noncitizens (though there have been a few organized voter fraud cases recently involving state GOP actors).
(
https://bipartisanpolicy.org/blog/five-things-to-know-about-the-save-act/)
Nicker on 19/9/2024 at 12:51
Quote:
Cut that in half to account for all the conspiracy nuts and anti-government free thinkers that would have been undeterred in any case and once more in half for the Republican leadership that found it politically expedient to rail against any measures they saw as hampering economic activity.
The number of 461,000 unnecessary deaths was developed by the Lancet, not conspiritards. Besides, where did Rethugs at the local level get the tacit permission to ignore the science and suppress mitigation efforts? From TRUMP. If Hillary had been in power or a GOP president with half a brain and a dusting of scruples, hundreds of thousands of unnecessary deaths could have been avoided.
Nicker on 19/9/2024 at 12:56
For the pro-Trumpers who ignored the previous Lawrence O'Donnell video about Donald Trump killing American women, here's another video for you all to ignore; a re-evisceration of him and his OWG cronies, who embedded misogyny and child abuse into America law.
[video=youtube;0KPzuCgA1pI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KPzuCgA1pI[/video]
Starker on 19/9/2024 at 15:34
Quote Posted by Nicker
The number of 461,000 unnecessary deaths was developed by the Lancet, not conspiritards. Besides, where did Rethugs at the local level get the tacit permission to ignore the science and suppress mitigation efforts? From TRUMP. If Hillary had been in power or a GOP president with half a brain and a dusting of scruples, hundreds of thousands of unnecessary deaths could have been avoided.
So, do you think Obama's policies led to the deaths of millions of US inhabitants? Cause he's on the chart too. And it goes back decades.
The point I'm making about the conspiracy theorists is that there was already a significant local pushback to COVID measures regardless of any federal policy. They didn't really need any permission. And other significant figures in the cult were pushing the same line.
The thing with the MAGA party is that the pressure often comes not from the top, but from the bottom. And there are pressures that even the leaders must bow down to (cf. abortion). And I assume that you're familiar with the QAnon religion and how it shapes the MAGA ideology.
Quote Posted by Discendo Vox
I've already provided some fairly strong evidence about contemporaneous deaths.
Post hoc ergo propter hoc?
SD on 19/9/2024 at 20:23
Quote Posted by Nicker
The number of 461,000 unnecessary deaths was developed by the Lancet, not conspiritards.
Wasn't the Lancet the first mainstream publication to give credence to MMR autism conspiracies?
Cipheron on 19/9/2024 at 20:35
Quote Posted by Vae
Now that Drumpf wants make it so illegals can't vote!...:grr:
Quiet, Orange Man!...Only wanting legitimate citizens to vote is racist!...:mad:
... which is you being 100% dishonest about what's going on.
It's already illegal for non-citizens to vote, and there's no evidence of illegals having been added onto the voter rolls.
So the only possible target of legislation that adds more hoops you gotta jump through than you have already to register to vote is the people who have already been registering to vote - actual citizens.
They do check your registration against databases to ensure when you register to vote that you're a real person who is already a citizen.
So what crime is this actually preventing and how is that related back to illegal immigrants?
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The only way it would make any sense is if the illegal was actually pretending to be someone else, and gave the details of a real citizen when they registered. The names and details do get checked against databases.
So they'd need to know enough details for that, that match what's on record, but they'd also need to know that this person isn't already registered to vote. So exactly how is the illegal immigrant getting that information?
Also keep in mind it's at least 5 years in prison if they catch you trying to pull this shit, all for the sake of one lousy vote in one election. People simply don't do this crime because it's fucking suicidal and there's no real benefit. It's all risk, no gain.
And it would be REAL EASY to get caught already - what if the REAL citizen you are impersonating then tries to register to vote only to find that someone else did so in their name. If the crime was actually happening - you'd expect people to be coming forward and stating that other people had registered to vote in their name all the time.
If you want to prevent this supposed crime happening - people trying to register to vote in someone else's name - a real citizen who isn't registered - then just ... make sure there are no unregistered eligible voters. Make registration automatic when a citizen turns 18, then there would be no possible unregistered people you could impersonate for what the bill mentions.
heywood on 19/9/2024 at 22:14
Quote Posted by Starker
So, do you think Obama's policies led to the deaths of millions of US inhabitants? Cause he's on the chart too. And it goes back decades.
The point I'm making about the conspiracy theorists is that there was already a significant local pushback to COVID measures regardless of any federal policy. They didn't really need any permission. And other significant figures in the cult were pushing the same line.
The thing with the MAGA party is that the pressure often comes not from the top, but from the bottom. And there are pressures that even the leaders must bow down to (cf. abortion). And I assume that you're familiar with the QAnon religion and how it shapes the MAGA ideology.
I agree with you. The energy is coming from the bottom and Trump channels it.
I also don't have any major complaints with how the Trump administration handled the very beginning of the pandemic when their actions were most critical. After the spring of 2020, Trump did put his re-election above the safety of the people, but I don't think that had much effect on anyone's behavior. The people's response was split right from the beginning, and a great many people were ignoring the guidance of the Trump administration anyway. I think the problems we had at the beginning of the pandemic with supplies etc. were due to inadequate preparation and would have been there regardless of who was in office.
