mxleader on 8/9/2024 at 13:19
Regardless of who will win between Trump and Harris the American middle and lower classes will lose.
Nicker on 9/9/2024 at 05:28
What a stinking load of horseshit, MX. They are already better off under Biden / Harris than they ever were under tRump.
He bilked them out of trillions to feed his rich buddies. He killed a million of them with COVID. He nearly destroyed democracy.
HE SEXUALLY ASSAULTED CHILDREN.
Fuck off with the both-sides-ism. I am sick of that crap and I bet I am not alone.
Nicker on 10/9/2024 at 12:32
Rachel Maddow and Lawrence O'Donnell with a one-two punch.
FACT: Tariffs are taxes on the people of the USA.
[video=youtube;sFd4zflqfeA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFd4zflqfeA[/video]
FACT: The holocaust happened.
[video=youtube;jK3wAj_1E3A]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jK3wAj_1E3A[/video]
mxleader on 10/9/2024 at 13:47
Quote Posted by Nicker
Rachel Maddow and Lawrence O'Donnell with a one-two punch.
FACT: Tariffs are taxes on the people of the USA.
I never understood where Trump got the idea that a 25% tax on imported goods is taxing foreign nations. Those countries couldn't care less because they aren't going to lose out and will give production capacity to other countries that don't impost a tariff on imported good. The cycling industry is still, after years of the tariff, struggling to get around it and they do for the most part. Bicycle manufacturers just past the cost onto dealers who then pass it onto the US consumer. One thing though that pisses me off is that the Biden administration hasn't done a damn thing to eliminate those tariffs.
RippedPhreak on 10/9/2024 at 14:09
Don't you guys like higher taxes? Aren't you always clamoring for higher taxes? So what's the problem? Just pay up.
mxleader on 10/9/2024 at 14:46
Quote Posted by RippedPhreak
Don't you guys like higher taxes? Aren't you always clamoring for higher taxes? So what's the problem? Just pay up.
I love tax increases hidden inside cost of goods increases.
I don't know what Trump was thinking when those tariffs were put in place because it was a bit late. It's not like all those thousands of jobs lost over the years from shifting production overseas will suddenly come pouring back into the US. The infrastructure is gone at this point for many of those jobs. I recall talking with some younger dude who was looking for a manufacturing job at a bicycle factory and couldn't understand why the company I worked for couldn't just build frames in the US. He had no idea that that company used to build frames in the US but then went bankrupt trying to compete against other bicycle manufactures that had already shifted production to Taiwan and China.
Also, technology marches on and trying to bring something like carbon frame manufacturing to the US is prohibitively expensive and there aren't enough skilled laborers to do so, and that would mean charging custom bike frame prices for production line stuff. It was a grand idea for Trump but a dismal failure for the American consumer and small business owner.
I also just want to add the Biden administration hasn't helped fully eliminating those tariffs either probably because it's too good of a deal for anyone with investments (politicians) in any corporation that can inflate their prices and increase profits based on tariffs.
One of the strangest effects of the tariffs on manufacturing is that it didn't hurt the high end goods market all that much at first because when you make a lot you pay a lot for things without batting an eye. For the low end of goods raising the cost of an item by 25% doesn't seem like all that much unless you're a consumer on a limited budget. Then it's a nightmare.
heywood on 10/9/2024 at 16:05
Trump saw China eating our lunch, but he focused on the trade deficit and current balance of payments as the problem, and missed the bigger strategic picture. His tariffs were intended to punish China for not being an equal trading partner, but what they did is reduce some of our exports to China and raise the price of Chinese goods here. And they didn't have any meaningful effect on the balance of payments.
The tariffs should have been targeted at preserving or helping build up strategically important industries where China was on a path to becoming the exclusive supplier. They should be a first step towards an economic divorce from China. We need to become independent from China for national security and long term economic stability reasons. That doesn't mean we can't trade with China, we just need to be independent. Our infrastructure and critical sectors of the economy need to keep going if trade with China is ever cut off due to geopolitical conflict.
The Biden administration continued the tariffs, including pointless ones that are only hurting us. But they show signs that they understand the long term strategic implications of our trade relationship, and are taking steps to develop (chip manufacturing) and preserve (US Steel) some critical industries. So I think they get it, but are cautious what they say publicly. Trump's across the board 25% is in keeping with paleo-conservatives views that are becoming common if not dominant on the right now. Like funding the government more on tariffs like we did before the 16th Amendment. And abolishing the Federal Reserve and adopting a form of fixed money supply used to be one of those Ron Paul ideas that Republicans would distance themselves from :erm:, but now it's got traction on the right. It seems the idea is to take away all the tools we've developed to mitigate the business cycle since the Second Industrial Revolution and bring back the Gilded Age.
RippedPhreak on 10/9/2024 at 16:08
No, losing all our jobs took years and it would take years for them to come back. But first we would have to set up a good environment for them to even considering coming back. Companies went overseas because they could ignore things like overtime pay, health insurance, maternity leave, safety measures in the warehouse, environmental impact studies, etc. All these things cost a lot of money.
So a business operating out of a third world country can sell a shirt for $10.00 because they don't need to worry about any of those laws or expenses. They might even have literal slave labor. A business in America has to pay for all those things I mentioned above, so they have to sell the same shirt at $30.00. Result: No one makes shirt in the USA.
The point of the tariff is to raise the cost of the overseas-made shirt to $30.00 so companies might as well just come back to the USA. But no, it won't happen all that quickly. Lastly, I would gladly pay a bit more for things if it meant Americans had jobs making X thing. And if Americans were making better money from all these jobs that came back, they wouldn't mind paying more anyway.
mxleader on 10/9/2024 at 16:36
Quote Posted by RippedPhreak
No, losing all our jobs took years and it would take years for them to come back. But first we would have to set up a good environment for them to even considering coming back. Companies went overseas because they could ignore things like overtime pay, health insurance, maternity leave, safety measures in the warehouse, environmental impact studies, etc. All these things cost a lot of money.
So a business operating out of a third world country can sell a shirt for $10.00 because they don't need to worry about any of those laws or expenses. They might even have literal slave labor. A business in America has to pay for all those things I mentioned above, so they have to sell the same shirt at $30.00. Result: No one makes shirt in the USA.
The point of the tariff is to raise the cost of the overseas-made shirt to $30.00 so companies might as well just come back to the USA. But no, it won't happen all that quickly. Lastly, I would gladly pay a bit more for things if it meant Americans had jobs making X thing. And if Americans were making better money from all these jobs that came back, they wouldn't mind paying more anyway.
One of the primary things that hurt the cycling industry was NAFTA. Literally within a couple of years of that agreement a lot of small manufacturers shifted to Mexico. The quality suffered greatly. Then they started to ship manufacturing to Taiwan and then China because they could get better quality product for even less money than south of the border. That being said there are many scrupulous ways to get around tariffs but it takes a lot of labor and creativity here on the US side of manufacturing companies bringing product from China.
Nicker on 10/9/2024 at 16:57
Quote:
Don't you guys like higher taxes?
Nope.
Next strawman, please.
Oh! Since you are here; raping children, like Donald trump has done. Are you still OK with that or has there been some change in your moral bearings?
