Brem_X_Jones on 18/11/2003 at 13:24
Just a note about the "one ammunition type" which people are missing - the different guns and different bullets from the same gun runs out at differening rates.
In other words, firing a sniper rifle bullet will take more ammunition than a single pistol round. Equally, firing the secondary fire of a SMG - a flash grenade - takes more of the ammunition than the primary fire.
Yes, its essentially an energy bar system and less "realistic" than the original. However it's far from tactically uninteresting. Rather than worrying ""What Ammo do I have on me?" you worry "Do I have enough ammunition to use my high-cost weapons? Or shall I be more economical? Or what?"
These are powerful tactical decisions, from what I've seen. Equally, by making it the player's decision what they fire rather than the designers (i.e. Have they put enough ammunition in the game), they're doing one of their "Increasing Player Choice" things.
(It also has the other implication of that all ammunition the opposition drop is possibly useful to the player. If you're a player who enjoys a certain sort of weapon that many of the opposition don't use, you were limited to barely ever using it and being moved into pistol/rifle play).
Is it a good decision? God knows, eventually. But it's an interesting one.
And, as Spector said in that Eurogamer Interview some hack hammered out, having a number of ammunitions was hardly central to what DX was about.
KG
Chade on 18/11/2003 at 13:34
that bloody euro-trash hack ... :sly:
Actaully, that was one of the cooler interviews I've seen. Although to be a bit critical, you came across as deliberately giving Spector a bit of an easy time, which I don't think you really intended to do.
Still, it was an interesting change ... from what I've seen it's gotten more heads turned then your average DX2 interview.
Brem_X_Jones on 18/11/2003 at 16:16
Quote:
Originally posted by Chade Actaully, that was one of the cooler interviews I've seen. Although to be a bit critical, you came across as deliberately giving Spector a bit of an easy time, which I don't think you really intended to do.
Oh, I agree. I did give him an easy ride.
(At least in this bit of the interview. There's a fair bit more, which will be showing up in a print magazine in about a month or so)
The thing is - I've played the game a fair bit, thus asking him about stuff I knew the answer to already was a bit of a waste of time. A lot of the questions were designed to include opinions on the game, and thus serve the function of a hands-on playtest thing. Bits like where I mention how elegant DX:IW feels weren't just meant to be sucking up - they were meant to be also informing the reader of something to do with the game.
Of course, it can come up a bit kiss-ass, but - y'know - a feature isn't about making the writer look good - it's about getting what's important and/or interesting about DX:IW across, and I'm quite prepared to sacrifice Journalistic Hard Man Cred for that purpose if required.
KG
Shadowcat on 18/11/2003 at 17:59
I like reloading. Outlaws taught me the immersive joy of weapons that didn't magically insert new amunition when the old was expended. Suddenly you can't just step out and spray endless bullets at people... you have to think about how many shots you'll get off before having to get behind cover again (the first shotgun in Outlaws could hold only one shell!), and it forces you to adapt your tactics. You don't necessarily need to make the loading process as long as it would be in reality, but just having the feature there tends to make it a more immersive experience, I find -- even just the occasional feeling of panic when you step out, take aim, and... *click*... "empty clip! argh!" makes it worth it IMO :)
Even if all the guns accept a standard nanite stream, and manufacture the bullets internally prior to firing, there would surely be nanite clips of some kind (the only alterntive I can think of is that you have to plug the guns into some kinf of nanite back-pack, and that sounds kinda cumbersome.
Still, maybe there will be enough immersion and tactics going on in DXIW that it really won't be missed.
SubJeff on 18/11/2003 at 18:04
Crap Brem, you're almost sounding humble.
On one hand ammo types are an interesting aspect of weapons use.
On the other the "value" of shots using unified ammo is interesting.
I'm sold! I thought it was bs when I first heard but thinking about it and the development of ones own unique play-style + increasing player chioce. . . as Emil says (after being given a "state of the art bang-bang") - "Iiiiiiiiiii like it!" Name that film flimoheads.
Matthew on 18/11/2003 at 18:18
Quote:
Originally posted by Zaphod I really thought that Mafia's brilliant (and so-obvious-it-had-never-been-done) ammo management system
Didn't UFO have that to a certain degree? IIRC, if you hadn't used all of the ammo in a clip by the end of a mission you forfeited the rest.
Besides, this idea has already been done in the amazing Hostile Waters. Nanite-manufactured ammunition in your weapons was generated automatically, but the nanos could only produce it so quickly. Once you used up the reserve, you had to wait for the nanos to make more ... ie reload. This could be another way of doing it. Alternatively, perhaps firing rates will be tweaked to compensate.
BTW Subjective Effect, are you seriously trying to test me with a
Robocop quote? ;)
D'Juhn Keep on 18/11/2003 at 19:20
I'm just dying for someone to tell me how taking out Area 51 has made the world's communications fubared for 20 years.
Minion21g on 18/11/2003 at 20:02
Ooo Ooo I can :)
[SPOILER]Aquinas and Dedalus combined to for Helios. IF you looked at any emails the root was always Dedalus, there for if you destroy A51 then you destroy Dedalus and Helios wiping out Communications. It would be like shutting down all the DNS servers for the internet.[/SPOILER]
Raisen on 18/11/2003 at 20:50
You know, Jedi Knight games have had a very similar ammo management system for years... You never ever reload (no explanation for this at all) and you have 2 basic types of ammo that work for 5 or 6 different weapons. No one gives a damn about it.
It's not the ammo. It's the game design. Granted, it seems like a step back, but this would only be true if DXIW was meant to be a pure or realistic FPS. Which it's not.
Brem_X_Jones on 18/11/2003 at 20:56
Quote:
Originally posted by Subjective Effect Crap Brem, you're almost sounding humble.
Beneath that hard invulnerable carapace beats the soft body of a weak seeker of truth.
Sadly, beneath that lies a diamond-core of pure ego.
KG
