twisty on 17/11/2003 at 04:47

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Ah, and another gem has just been revealed - <b>No Reloading</b>. You don't even need to reload this amazing new ammo anymore: it does it all for you!

MSX on 17/11/2003 at 09:22

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Ok... so the whole no reloading thing means = modelers can be lazy and not do animations for them. Reloading... is cool. If not countless upon countless action movies have proved. Finding new and cooler ways to reload even. Its like shooting yourself in the foot over and over again with a gun that does not need to be reloaded.

The lack of bullet management is sad too. I like collecting ammo dammit. Its half the fun of the game. It forces you to do somewhat risky things like take a guy out with a riot baton instead of the prod... Ah well. I'm sure we'll all enjoy the game, though I'm not going to think of it as a deus ex sequel.

Z on 17/11/2003 at 13:58

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Hmm. That reloading decision startled me. Not what I expected, and not what I wanted.
Most of the other unusual design decisions they've made can be readily justified as regards the problems in DX1, but reloading - well, I haven't seen the developers give a reasonable justification. Seems to me they had to remove it as an unfortunate side-effect of unified ammo pooling.

*shrug* I like reloading, but it doesn't bother me that much. Mostly because I don't play DX as a straight FPS and do far more talking and sneaking than shooting. And I must say I cannot understand some people's reactions to this news. Sure, it's a familiar and "cool" feature, but I hardly see how removing it ruins the entire game - it's not exactly the lynchpin of the concept. I'm not referring so much to comments here, BTW, as elsewhere.



I must say I disagree. Looking through all the previews, as well as the interviews and comments from the developers on forums, the game actually looks better than it did months ago, in my opinion.

Anyway, it strikes me that Ion's vision with this game extends beyond action, or even roleplaying. Some of the things they're trying with this game have never been done before, anywhere. Compared to the overall concept, ammunition issues are a triviality.

My main concern with this news is that it seems highly unlikely that 2 or 3 million people will buy a game with no reloading.

Z

Zaphod on 17/11/2003 at 16:10

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I really thought that Mafia's brilliant (and so-obvious-it-had-never-been-done) ammo management system would fast become the standard for all "immersive" games. In case you haven't played it, it actually attempts to mimic Real Life... if you "reload" while there's still shells in your current clip, you lose those shells. Makes sense. If I have a gun with a 15-shell clip, and after 8 shells, I decide to "reload," I'm not going to pull 7 shells out of my next clip and fill up my current one. I'm just going to throw my current clip away and move on to the next. And Mafia mimicked that. Simple and brilliant. Now it seems that we're actually headed in the opposite direction.

Automatic reloading? All guns have the same ammo type? What year is this? How far did the WayBack machine take me? I'll need to get some parachute pants, stat.

ACT SMILEY on 17/11/2003 at 19:40

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Yeah, I like the idea of half filled clips either being discarded or left half-empty at the back of the clip queue. In some games it doesn't work, true, but for most games its great (I have a memory of charging out of the west flag bunker on the EFL CTF Hidden and Lethal map for Operation Flashpoint with a couple of bullets left in my clip, shooting a guy in the head, turning around, seeing a bloke trying to find me, quickly reloading and going to spray, as he was a split second from shooting me, realising I had just shoved in my last three bullets... aiming in a rush then sticking two of them in him, running off and just before I got into a wood that would give me a lot of cover back to my flag, coming under fire from behind, turning around with the one bullet, aiming... and hitting the bloke in the foot and running... :D )
Anyway, enough about a completely different game, the point is, it can be atmospheric. In DX1, it was possible to play with just one weapon and the baton. I think that this won't increase roleplaying, but take it in a step towards Serious Sam, which while a good game wasn't anywhere near what I want to see in a DX game.
I have the feeling that if things get too bad, I'll end up attempting a DXIW-for-DX1 mod :p

I mean, whats preferable?
"ok, if I use this grenade it costs me five points and I have nothing, or I get five pistol shots"
ok, so the grenade goes into the room, takes out two of the three blokes in there and its down to a knife charge.
or, two pistol shots on each guy takes them out.

"I have two bullets for my sniper rifle, two pistol bullets"
ok despite the fact that I don't usually snipe, I've found a sniper rifle and in addition to the pistol its all I've got, looking around I can approach this by getting a view of two of them from next-doors attic, putting a bullet in the head of those two, then move in through the door and shoot the last guy with the pistol bullets. However, if I miss with either of the sniper bullets I'll have to rely on the knife.

You might say the first simply because it gives the most options, but the second is better in my opinion because it doesn't give the player complete control - it forces the player to adapt to new situations and create new ways out based on what is available.

And Z, as to the "This game is looking worse and worse every preview I read.", well, in my eyes, it is. Before, I simply filled in the blanks with stuff from DX1 in terms of style, gameplay etc. - while the second looks to be more streamlined, it also appears to be heading in a different way to what I would have expected and wanted from a sequel to DX. In this case, its the little things, I do agree in some of the stuff they're doing.

For the many who probably can't be arsed to read that rambling it comes down to - I think that the player should *have* to innovate new ideas as they go, rather than have one plan-fits-all. I'm not saying that the game should force the player to use a sniper rifle or talk or whatever, but that the game should make it so that the player has to weigh up every choice they make, rather than simply falling back on one method, whether thats by weighing an area in favour of dialogue rather than a big gun, or by ammo types, or whatever.