twisty on 21/10/2000 at 08:42
I know this hasn't got anything to do with the underworld series, but I figure that anyone else whose a fan of the underworld series seems to have also been impressed with Ultima7 - another of my favourite games. In other words Id like to see whether its really as bad as some reviewers have said it is.
Brad Schoonmaker on 21/10/2000 at 18:03
Get it if you have a PIII or a really good PII with a great graphics card. I liked it even with the low clipping plane my machine could achieve. In the underground areas it reminds me a lot of the Underworld games. The interface is cumbersome I think, though.
I'd been following the U9 development online for a long time prior to release and have collected many ingame screenshots and video clips that show many areas and events drastically different from the final version. That's when I realized great games aren't really easy to put together without sacrifice. There were some cool looking things happening in those cutscenes, though.
Just get it. See for yourself. It's definitely the best conclusion to any saga I've ever seen.
Brad S.
Brad Schoonmaker on 21/10/2000 at 21:06
PraetorJudis
Are you disagreeing with me on it being a great conclusion to the Ultima saga or just that you didn't like the game because you think it should have been better because of being an Ultima? I know that sounds a little redundant, but I'm cofused.
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PraetorJudis on 21/10/2000 at 21:24
I do disagree with you Brad. I think it was a sad end to the series.
Sure, we finally had it confirmed that *spoiler* was *spoiler* all along, but the "love interest" was tacked on and horrible, the companions were
not a huge part of the story as was promised (remember how at one point in the game's development we were going to be able to play as the companions at various points in the game?). The plot was exceedingly linear and wandering off for adventure created plot stopping bugs.
The engine was fine, the interface was great... but the story was sadly lacking, and story is why I liked the Ultima games so much.
Like I said; as a game it wasn't terrible, butr as an Ultima it was certainly sub par, in my not so terribly humble opinion.
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Brad Schoonmaker on 21/10/2000 at 23:45
I see. There were plenty of moments that let me see past those faults you mention, though.
1. The prostitute in Buck's Den. Hilarious!
2. The other Avatar side story. Usually, that sort of parody anoys me, but this one was great.
3. Exploring the dungeons and caves were fun, expecially Destard.
I admit that they could have done better with the story as a whole. I did feel that it was lacking even early on into the game. I don't remember exactly what prompted me to stop and say, 'Wait a minute...', but there were a couple of those times.
I remember some talk about companions being a large part of the game and I missed that aspect of Ultima, but there weren't any in either Ultima 8 nor the Underworlds so I was used to it. I don't see how they could have accomplished party play any better in U9 as in the others, anyway.
I also heard something about dragons being used as transportation, but that was dropped, too. Oh well. That could have been fun.
I don't think your arguement is wrong, but I like the game despite the many faults it may have.
I've been playing Ultimas since the very early 80's (hard to say which year) and I like U3 the best of all the them. U3 had simplified graphics, but good enough to keep me interested. It had a linear plot, but it also had hints to what was to come later in the series; a trait common in the later games. I also liked how the party system was done. I don't believe that that same structure of linear plot, adequate graphics and party system could be acceptable today, but I liked U3 best because it didn't overextend its capabilities. It used them all to the fullest.
There have been other great Ultimas, but they faultered just as U9 did on so many points (yours included). It would be great if the Lost Veil from U8 had been completed. The storylines of the Avatar leading an army in U9 and companions at his side as well as conflict between the Avatar and Lord British could all have been amazing to witness in the game. The problem the dev. team must have come across was that not everything fit together to make a shippable product. That's not good enough for a disappointed fan to hear, but I know that many games and movies show more promise than they deliver. I would hate to have gotten U9 and seen what they couldn't put together right still included anyway.
I totally agree that it had many plot holes and miscues for that matter, but let that go because it is the final game in the original series. That was the only reason I got the game in the first place. I even got this new computer in order to play it. That and SS2.
Brad S.
xman on 23/10/2000 at 09:37
I quite agree with most of the comments I read here.
Despite the fact that it was a huge disappointment, the game is still interesting and beautiful (if you tweak the options.ini file and have a quite powerful machine...).
Actually, With 1 extra year of work, it could have been the best game in the world; ranking Underworld at the 2nd place. But because of the bugs and the linearity (forced by the bugs: you'd better follow the story line if you don't want to talk to people about things you aren't supposed to know yet) Ultima9 won't be the best game in the world. It is however a good game that I don't regret to have bought.
[This message has been edited by xman (edited October 23, 2000).]
Nedan on 23/10/2000 at 15:59
Ultima IX: Ascension discussion eh? Well... since I bought it when it first came out & since I tried posting about it at TTLG before... I guess I should say something.
Linear games are not all that bad. I really wish people would give that linear card a rest. If the gameplay is good & the quests are great... the linearness won't matter much at all.
U9 had bugs... but the only ones I really noticed were video card compatibilty problems, the rest weren't that bad to me.
U9 needed a power house of a system to run. SO FRIGGGIN' WHAT??? Lots of games needed the same when they were released. Anybody remember System Shock 1? Sheesh... that doesn't make a game worse if it needs a power house of a system. It might be more annoying... but that doesn't make it a bad game.
In the end, Ultima9 was a great game & it truly deserved to be nominated for best RPG of the year IMO. I won't say that it deserved to win because I wanted SS2 to win that... & it did. If you plan to get Ultima 9... make sure you have a very powerful system to run it. Also make sure to do the full install on the game... as it will speed it up just that much more.
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xman on 24/10/2000 at 09:26
I agree with you about linearity.
Sometimes it also prevents the player from getting lost with too much things to do at the same time.
The problem in U9 is that you CAN try to break the linearity. But if you do so, you enter the twilight zone.
About the power of the machine. That's OK for me because I bought a new powerful one just before buying the game.
But about the bugs, the one who really really really got my nerves was the fact that when I saved the game in dungeons, I add more than 1 chance out of 2 to get the following message when I load it back: "Too many items in the nearby - unrecoverable error - exiting".
Without THAT bug, I could bear all the others.
Vigil on 24/10/2000 at 11:16
There's nothing wrong with plot linearity in and of itself. With the right pacing (and Japanese RPGs excel at this), linearity can create a powerful story-driven saga. Ultima VII part 2 is a successful example.
However I gather the problem with U9, as has been previously mentioned, was not that it was linear but that the game didn't anticipate you straying off the plot path; from what I've heard it was quite easy to run into parts of the game you "weren't meant to have seen yet" and get fucked-up conversations or plot-stopping bugs on account of poorly scripted gameflags. In other words it wasn't linear enough to handle its own linearity.
I wouldn't know firsthand, I didn't buy the thing and probably won't, as I haven't heard anything that would make me want to. U8 was a half-decent game in its own right, but it was still a shit-poor Ultima and blew any charity I had towards the future works of Richard Garriott.
[This message has been edited by Vigil (edited October 25, 2000).]
