Hewer on 10/5/2007 at 22:39
What if the main forum hub gets modified to be the main hub of everything? It's already divided into all the sub-categories- just add more options for each category.
So, take Thief for example. The Thief sub-section has a links to the main Thief sub-forums, but also links to news/review articles, FM ratings/downloads, fan art and lit, The Dark Mod and whatever else is or becomes pertinent.
Sub-sections could be added, deleted or combined similarly to how the forums are currently organized. The community section, which would include Comm Chat, Troubleshooting, General Gaming et. al., could also include community projects like reviews, humor pieces- whatever doesn't fit into a sub-section.
I don't know how to describe what TTLG is more than something like "intelligent PC games that don't suck" either, but I do know that when I go looking for a new game to play, I can always rely on the opinions I get here to provide me with a good experience that fits my tastes.
Nameless Voice on 10/5/2007 at 23:56
I'm not sure if that would be a good idea.
The main forum index is already 'too cluttered' in some ways, since even with some sections closed there's still a lot of information there for when you only want to see an overview of a few forums.
Scots Taffer on 11/5/2007 at 00:06
I think scumble has connected with what I, Piglick and GBM is saying in many ways, by expressing that as a community we approach gaming unlike most others by not always paying regard to the technology of the day and the latest whizzbang DX10 effects, but rather the longevity of titles and the intelligence of the gaming experience - which is why the creation of a Legacy Gaming forum makes sense, I mean how many threads are there on that sort of thing in GenGaming and how long is it before the Thief games are considered legacy.
Yes, the attitude does come off as ECLECTIC-GAMES.COM or something horribly snobbish, but there are people who hold anything they appreciate to a high standard: literature buffs, arthouse cinephiles, appreciators of wine and cuisine, etc, so why not apply a similarly high standard to computer gaming?
This community by and large tends to define what is a disposable gaming experience and what is a worthwhile game that deserves time and thought spent on it. So it makes sense for us to continue doing so, with the forums functioning as they always have done, but this is now about the hub and if we can agree that as a community we define what games fit the LGS feel then won't we use the hub to point out:
a) threads developing (a good example would be the STALKER megathread that prompted the subforum) that indicate the community's growing fervour for a particular game
b) upcoming previews of games readily identifiable as following in the footsteps of Thief/System Shock etc (Bioshock etc)
c) editorials/discussion of themes/ideas that make these games popular within the community
d) community goings-on (upcoming meets etc) as well as incidental threads that often provide amusement (some Thiefgen threads are (un)intentional gold for a read at times, but I often forget to browse there)
e) random musings
Of course, it then becomes someone's responsibility to manage/oversee all of this without it falling by the wayside and suffering blog-syndrome.
BEAR on 11/5/2007 at 00:21
This might have been said before, but one thing I think it would be great if we could do would be to consolidate and organize updates on fan related projects.
There are alot of interesting fan projects going on out there, and if you are sufficiently busy it feels like there just isnt enough time to keep up with progress let alone contribute.
A frequent thing I do is to find out about something interesting only to forget about it and miss out on the hayday of said thing.
I think it would be interesting to become somewhat of a hub for creative minded fan endeavors (ie. not every conversion remake on earth), a place fan-dev's could come and create feeds to their projects where you could actually keep track of them and make some sense of things. I know it sounds too web 2.0 but what isnt these days.
I guess this is possibly more of a software request than a real paradigm shift as far as TTLG's place on the web, but the more thats going on the harder it feels to keep track of everything.
In line with the organization of fan efforts might be a way to help more people become involved by merging needs and resources, I think alot of what turns people away that might otherwise want to help is the un-standardized decentralized nature of such ventures.
It seems like commercial games tailored to the likes of a community such as ours are growing fewer and farther between, so it might be interesting to take the shift away from the latest and greatest.
These ideas could be applied to thief/ss2 etc fan missions, TDM etc, insted of having all these places spread about and making them more accessible to the weekend wannabe (like me).
My apologies if this has all been said before or isnt relevant.
Stitch on 11/5/2007 at 00:22
Sounds like we're on track to creating a frontpage that serves only the pre-existing community, which would make it utterly disposable. Maybe I got drunk off GBM's words but I thought we were trying to aim a little higher than that.
Scots Taffer on 11/5/2007 at 00:46
It's a frustrating concept to put into words, without wanting to service the immediate community but at the same time not wanting to appear completely disjoint from it, I think to do this we need a focus that is shared across all of TTLG which can then be shaped by the personalities of the forum who want involved. In that way, we can create a hub that works as a entry point to new members and serve as an ongoing portal where it's relatively obvious what the community is all about because of the community involvement.
If we make a hub that bears no resemblance to the interests of the forums and is just a bunch of scattered musings from forum personalities, how can we expect new people who read the main page to feel comfortable in the forums (since really, there's an overwhelming commchat slant to the majority of posters here) and yes, the opposite rule applies but not as strongly, because one assumes that someone in the forums has already found something they like about the place and if there's a common thread of that to be found in the hub then they too can find something there worth reading.
Also, it becomes very apparent from the ideas being pushed around that this would involve massive commitment from the engaged parties in consistently and enthusiastically contributing for the wellbeing of TTLG, which is just as critical to success as having a winning formula for an interesting main page in the first place. Driving the main page off of more random or tangental ideas just seems like a recipe for disaster to me, as interest will always wane from time to time if there is a lack of structure or focus and then you'll get the blog-effect, where people post a lot then trail off and make sporadic random updates.
All that said, I think having FM specific stuff is pointless. We have Thief-The Circle for that and if people want to revamp specifics about that sister-site then get involved on that site and make the suggestions there. I don't think they belong on a main page for the site which primarily functions as a portal to the forums, which is what we've more or less agreed is the main driving force of TTLG these days.
fett on 11/5/2007 at 01:01
Quote Posted by Stitch
Sounds like we're on track to creating a frontpage that serves only the pre-existing community, which would make it utterly disposable. Maybe I got drunk off GBM's words but I thought we were trying to aim a little higher than that.
But I would argue that we will attract people by serving the pre-existing community to some extent. Scots is dead on when he says that TTLG is for high-society gamers. We're fucking snobs and although that shouldn't be the tag line, it's what attracted me here in the first place. I played TDP and thought, "Hell, I bet there's other games like this, and people who play them, and if I can't find either, than this is probably the last game I'll ever play."
The existing community is attracted across the board to 'games that don't suck' and as has been said previously, there is no need to articulate that. There's plenty of people out there who are like us, but there's nothing on Hub to clue them into the fact that they belong here right now.
BEAR on 11/5/2007 at 01:12
Quote Posted by Scots_Taffer
All that said, I think having FM specific stuff is pointless. We have Thief-The Circle for that and if people want to revamp specifics about that sister-site then get involved on that site and make the suggestions there.
I didnt mean FM's specifically, and maybe they would have nothing to do with this, but more community projects from ttlg and other communities.
Quote Posted by Scots_Taffer
I don't think they belong on a main page for the site which primarily functions as a portal to the forums, which is what we've more or less agreed is the main driving force of TTLG these days.
I thought that was the entire point of this discussion - to make the main page somthing besides just a portal to the forums.
Quote Posted by Stitch
Sounds like we're on track to creating a frontpage that serves only the pre-existing community, which would make it utterly disposable. Maybe I got drunk off GBM's words but I thought we were trying to aim a little higher than that.
If we tried to bring together other fan communities and fan developers seems like that would likely bring alot of new people to the site.
It comes down to what people thing TTLG should be for, what I've always seen it as is a place of reasonably intelligent discussion of games centering on creativity and originality. Im all for having reviews etc that help people find out about games they might otherwise have missed, but do we really need another gaming news site?
Scots Taffer on 11/5/2007 at 01:24
Quote Posted by BEAR
I thought that was the entire point of this discussion - to make the main page somthing besides just a portal to the forums.
That comment came off wrong, what I mean is that the primary driving force of TTLG is the forums and the main page should reflect that in some way. The primary driving force of Thief-The-Circle is the continued input from the community in the form of FMs etc and it should reflect that on its own site.
The main page needs to be something that isn't anywhere else, yet at the same time needs to connect with everything else, which is what makes it a bit of a conundrum. We need to harness the creative energies of the community without allowing to run unrestrained in a random fashion across the main page.
Abysmal on 11/5/2007 at 01:37
Worrying about being too snobby is likely just as bad as being it. Determining quality, intelligent content should be our bag at this point. Have some balls, this thing has to be comfortable, and a little masturbation & boldness now and then is fine I'd say. Straightforward news coverage would be uninspired; it's just not our style.
