OnionBob on 27/7/2006 at 18:45
As we seem to be making suggestions for next month, and as there seems to be some (somewhat bewildering) doubt as to the value of next month's selection when compared to what are seen to be somehow "weightier" or "more literary" choices (references to Nabakov and Simon Singh abound), I'd like to put in my suggestion.
This book comes with impeccable credentials - it was written by a Nobel prizewinner, and the book itself bagged the Pulitzer. And it shows. It's a devastating, at times unpalatable read, without ever being manipulative or cliché, and it's one of those books that everyone should experience. It's starting to turn up on some high school syllabuses now which is a bit nuts but good on 'em.
(http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0099760118/026-4534441-3399615?v=glance&n=266239) Beloved by Toni Morrison.Amazon overview:
In the troubled years following the Civil War, the spirit of a murdered child haunts the Ohio home of a former slave. This angry, destructive ghost breaks mirrors, leaves its fingerprints in cake icing, and generally makes life difficult for Sethe and her family; nevertheless, the woman finds the haunting oddly comforting for the spirit is that of her own dead baby, never named, thought of only as Beloved.
A dead child, a runaway slave, a terrible secret--these are the central concerns of Toni Morrison's Pulitzer Prize-winning Beloved. Morrison, a Nobel laureate, has written many fine novels, including Song of Solomon, The Bluest Eye, and Paradise--but Beloved is arguably her best. To modern readers, antebellum slavery is a subject so familiar that it is almost impossible to render its horrors in a way that seems neither clichéd nor melodramatic. Rapes, beatings, murders, and mutilations are recounted here, but they belong to characters so precisely drawn that the tragedy remains individual, terrifying to us because it is terrifying to the sufferer. And Morrison is master of the telling detail: in the bit, for example, a punishing piece of headgear used to discipline recalcitrant slaves, she manages to encapsulate all of slavery's many cruelties into one apt symbol--a device that deprives its wearer of speech. "Days after it was taken out, goose fat was rubbed on the corners of the mouth but nothing to soothe the tongue or take the wildness out of the eye." Most importantly, the language here, while often lyrical, is never overheated. Even as she recalls the cruelties visited upon her while a slave, Sethe is evocative without being overemotional: "Add my husband to it, watching, above me in the loft--hiding close by--the one place he thought no one would look for him, looking down on what I couldn't look at at all. And not stopping them--looking and letting it happen.... And if he was that broken then, then he is also and certainly dead now." Even the supernatural is treated as an ordinary fact of life: "Not a house in the country ain't packed to its rafters with some dead Negro's grief. We lucky this ghost is a baby," comments Sethe's mother-in-law.
Beloved is a dense, complex novel that yields up its secrets one by one. As Morrison takes us deeper into Sethe's history and her memories, the horrifying circumstances of her baby's death start to make terrible sense. And as past meets present in the shape of a mysterious young woman about the same age as Sethe's daughter would have been, the narrative builds inexorably to its powerful, painful conclusion. Beloved may well be the defining novel of slavery in America, the one that all others will be measured by. --Alix Wilber
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So yeah, that's my suggestion for next time. :cool:
Stitch on 27/7/2006 at 19:09
Quote Posted by OnionBob
As we seem to be making suggestions for next month, and as there seems to be some (somewhat bewildering) doubt as to the value of next month's selection when compared to what are seen to be somehow "weightier" or "more literary" choices
It has nothing to do with being "weighty" or "literary." My basic problem with <U>The Big Sleep</U> is that it's unrepentant genre fiction--of a genre in which I care little. I was disappointed to see that out of all the promising candidates, the least interesting one was elected.
Having said that, part of the point of this club is to broaden our horizons a bit, and I'll give <U>The Big Sleep</U> my best shot. I made a few snide comments and I'll leave it at that, as I don't want to poison discussion of the book before anyone's even read one word.
Paz on 27/7/2006 at 20:41
Quote Posted by Stitch
the least interesting one was elected.
That's a bit subjective isn't it?
I'd have voted for Murakami except I was reading "Kafka on the Shore" at the time and fancied a change. Having never read any "noir", I thought "The Big Sleep" might be (no ... but yes!) interesting.
I could yet be proved wrong, but hey.
OnionBob on 27/7/2006 at 20:58
Quote Posted by Stitch
It has nothing to do with being "weighty" or "literary." My basic problem with <U>The Big Sleep</U> is that it's unrepentant genre fiction--of a genre in which I care little. I was disappointed to see that out of all the promising candidates, the least interesting one was elected.
Having said that, part of the point of this club is to broaden our horizons a bit, and I'll give <U>The Big Sleep</U> my best shot. I made a few snide comments and I'll leave it at that, as I don't want to poison discussion of the book before anyone's even read one word.
Yes, it's unrepentant genre fiction, but I don't think it's the least interesting choice in that list, and certainly not in any objectively showable way. I understand and absolutely support the desire to avoid getting bogged down in genres, and especially science fiction (this being the Internet and all) but in the drive to demystify what's allowed to be considered literary canon, I think
The Big Sleep is an important novel, not to mention in the critical theory and gender issues that can be read from it. It doesn't transcend genres, no, but it is certainly the definitive text of its genre, and as such stands as a reading choice that occupies an important point in our cultural heritage. It's not just "a noir novel" (if there is such a thing), it's "
the noir novel", and quite apart from that fact its brand of dialogue and politics permeates much popular fiction and cultural form produced since.
And, of course, let's not forget that it's also a really enjoyable read (sorry, but I've started it already, I found it in the library and wanted to grab it, and spend too much time on the tube with a book burning a hole in my bag to just ignore it), and on a practical level, as I mentioned before, it's cheap and easy to get hold of, and there's a film - which always extends discussion on a novel whether it's good or not.
I don't want to be an asshole, but I just have to express my frustration at some of the responses to this first open selection. Considering what an excellent idea the book club is and how wholehearted the support has been on the whole (and I think it's fair to say that I've been one of the more vocal supporters), I think it really would be a shame to let "snide comments", shouting down of other books or otherwise get in the way of this truly excellent idea. I'm looking forward to the
Life of Pi discussion, and also to the
Big Sleep discussion, and Stitch, I'm hoping your fears about the novel will be allayed when you actually read it.
Stitch on 27/7/2006 at 22:02
Quote Posted by Paz
That's a bit subjective isn't it?
Is this a trick question?
Quote Posted by OnionBob
I don't want to be an asshole, but I just have to express my frustration at some of the responses to this first open selection. Considering what an excellent idea the book club is and how wholehearted the support has been on the whole (and I think it's fair to say that I've been one of the more vocal supporters), I think it really would be a shame to let "snide comments", shouting down of other books or otherwise get in the way of this truly excellent idea.
I agree, actually. One thing I've tried to make clear when people ask for rules clarification is that this is a community driven effort. ignatios and I may have set this up and I may be the one creating the threads, but beyond that this club belongs to absolutely anyone who wants to participate.
Additionally, if I do hate the book I still plan on keeping my contributions to the discussion as civil and constructive as possible. Explaining whay you think a book doesn't work is far more interesting than openly insulting the selection and the person who suggested it.
Rug Burn Junky on 27/7/2006 at 22:17
Of course, when I try to redeem said foray into unrepentant genre fiction by offering as a follow-up an interesting, acclaimed novel by a rising literary star which subverts that genre and uses it as a jumping off point for a new, fresh take, all Stitch can do is openly insult that selection.
I think the lesson to be learned here is that Stitch is a doodyhead.
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And I can't vote for Toni Morrison because that will make me think we're all watching Oprah.
Stitch on 27/7/2006 at 22:24
I'm loving the open mocking of book suggestions, especially in regards to it all being directed at Onionbob.
Rug Burn Junky on 27/7/2006 at 22:39
See what I mean? Now he's being a real kakapoopoo.
Paz on 27/7/2006 at 23:26
Quote Posted by Stitch
Is this a trick question?
Not at all, the correct answer is "yes"!
Anyway, for some reason I read your "this is the least interesting choice" as a PRIME DIRECTIVE rather than a personal feeling - probably 'cos you and ig kicked off this wonderful thing. Subsequently it came across as a bit "man, we're so disappointed in you awful plebs" and my class warfare meter went into overdrive AND OH MY HOW DARE YOU. Reading it again (along with the post afterwards) makes it clear I'd lost my mind.
So yes, back to flirting.
Scots Taffer on 27/7/2006 at 23:27
Quote Posted by Scots_Taffer
Hey, guys let's have the TTLG intellectual discussion about our book choice!
Or how about not.
I was joking you incredible fucking asshats.