Paz on 15/9/2006 at 11:27
I'm not sure I particularly like your attitude here. What crosses discussion into "literature student wankery", is that your code phrase for stuff you don't understand?
I found Bob's gender-based thoughts about The Big Sleep, for example, quite fascinating (despite not completely following every word of it).
Moreover, it is perfectly possible to form interesting ideas and thoughts about average works. Rather than viewing this as some kind of "showing off", maybe it could be considered a useful attempt to elevate the book from the mundane. Indeed, perhaps it may uncover hidden depths which show that the book is, in fact, NOT average at all.
Scots Taffer on 15/9/2006 at 11:37
I wasn't attempting to criticise anyone in particular or any commentary in particular, Paz, but merely making a sort-of throw-away aside that I find that people can indeed make out more than is intended by much literature because they are almost "trained" to look for complexity. I'm sorry if you find my attitude out of place, but I guess I've not really aligned myself to be any meaningful part of the bookclub so far and I was just making general commentary.
Also, I guess I don't agree with tangental academic views on a specific book based on other works of literature in a similar genre or theme to increase the worthiness of that read. What I'm saying is, I don't feel like I should have to read three or four other books in the genre to appreicate what this one is saying - if I hadn't read any others and was judging this book alone on individual merits.
Paz on 15/9/2006 at 12:09
Fair doos, no harm done :) I've only played along with
The Big Sleep, I'm not any kind of authority on reading groups or anything.
Quote Posted by Scots_Taffer
I find that people
can indeed make out more than is intended by much literature because they are almost "trained" to look for complexity.
You see, I think this is great! It's like interpreting songs; people can take unique and personal symbolism from snatches of lyrics that were almost certainly not intended to be read in that precise way. I don't think that matters. As long as an interpretation is coherant and interesting, I think it's often valid in some way. I don't believe in an author's intention having the rule over every single other response to the work.
If someone can get a convincing Marxist dialogue out of
The Very Hungry Caterpillar, then I definitely want to read it, absorb it and consider it.
Of course, many may see this as post-modern wankery. Which is fair enough in a lot of ways ;)
Quote Posted by Scots_Taffer
What I'm saying is, I don't feel like I should have to read three or four other books in the genre to appreicate what this one is saying - if I hadn't read any others and was judging this book alone on individual merits.
Yeah, if you *have* to read those other books before you can appreciate it properly, then it's fair to say the original work has failed. If the other books act as a boost to the (already tangible) enjoyment and interested gained from the initial novel though, I think that's useful.
For example, I enjoyed
The Name of the Rose fine as a story. I also enjoyed the angle it took on the spread of enlightenment-age thinking in a religious setting, and the various nods to Sherlock Holmes. I'm sure it had a whole bunch of other stuff that I missed (due to the sheer size of Eco's literary cock), but that didn't damage my enjoyment. Conversely, the way he sprinkled Latin all over the place (which I can't read) got right on my tits - but someone else might have loved that.
The Latin.
Not the getting on my tits.
Stitch on 15/9/2006 at 14:19
Quote Posted by Paz
I found Bob's gender-based thoughts about
The Big Sleep, for example, quite fascinating (despite not completely following every word of it).
Onionbob was a god in that thread. His mini-thesis had half of me smirking and saying, "I have an English degree, I know what you're doing there," while the other half of me cheered on his observations. No matter what you think about what he wrote, the fact of the matter is it did make you think and then form an opinion, which is what discussion is all about.
Of course, it helps that ODBob's argument was fairly persuasive, and it caused me to view <U>The Big Sleep</U> in a different light.
As far as the <U>Ender's Game</U> controversy goes, I think we're blowing the issue out of proportion. I agree generally with Scots on this one, but the book won fair and square and I'm happy to wait and see how discussion goes before decrying <U>Ender's Game</U> as the downfall of the book club.
Fingernail on 17/9/2006 at 16:14
I keep missing stuff like the voting but I have read the Wasp Factory and am awaiting discussion thereof.
This one sounds interesting?
If I get it now though I might be a bit too far ahead, I read the Wasp Factory in an afternoon (quite a long afternoon but hey).
Aerothorn on 17/9/2006 at 17:41
I'm only like, a quarter of the way through The Wasp Factory, but I already have enough commentary that I need to start writing it down - here's hoping I have time to finish before discussion starts.
oudeis on 20/9/2006 at 13:13
If you guys were going to pick or even nominate a Card novel it should have been Hart's Hope. An absolutely beautiful, terrible story, full of imagination and movingly written. There would have been some motherfuckin' controversy after people read that one.
Stitch on 20/9/2006 at 15:16
Quote Posted by Aerothorn
I'm only like, a quarter of the way through The Wasp Factory, but I already have enough commentary that I need to start writing it down - here's hoping I have time to finish before discussion starts.
It's looking like I'm not going to be able to join in this month as I can't find <U>The Wasp Factory</U> anywhere and I'm running out of time to both order and read it :(
Malygris on 20/9/2006 at 15:49
It's actually a pretty quick read. Even with just a casual effort, you still have lots of time to finish it off.
Kyloe on 20/9/2006 at 17:04
Same here. I can't even find a German edition and my brother told me he has sold his copy.
