ignatios on 7/12/2006 at 21:27

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I've got thirty pages Dirty mages! Eat me Angus! left; see you nigs shorty.

edit: Right, done. I'll need a while to collect a response, but I'll at least say that I've enjoyed this more than any of the previous Book Club books. Goddamn brilliant.

Jan on 12/12/2006 at 14:18

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Ok, so it took me a while to get up the guts to post to this. Read it fairly quickly; then went back to go over certain passages again. Can't really say that I loved it--actually as a book it was merely mediocre in my opinion. However it did stay with me for a while, which is good. Before I start rambling I'll give some reasons:

The story didn't read well as a detective story. Most characters were one-dimensional, merely half-formed at best, with lots of potential that seemed to stop short of coming to fruition.(If that makes sense.)

Loved the whole back story, but the tone somehow changed about a third of the way into the book and left me yawning, questioning, and wondering what the hell had happened to the story I'd enjoyed just a minute ago. Couldn't really shake that feeling. It seemed that a few major plotlines were squeezed in that didn't really mesh all that well.

Lionel describes how he's always had a problem hooking up with women, in fact the few times he was lucky with them either he or they were drunk (or some such line). Only a few pages later he almost instantly hooks up with Kimmery?

Lionel himself seems to have surprisingly little shame? angst? shyness? about his affliction. It would seem to me that if you heard throughout most of your life, especially throughout your teens, that you were an absolute freakshow, you would develop more angst.

Well, all that said I think it was still a good read, just not as excellent as I hoped it would be. I loved the inventiveness, and the sheer joy he (Lethem) seemed to have making up Lionel's echolalia; it slowed down reading and the advancement of the story considerably, but once I got over this I could enjoy the language for itself.

Paz on 13/12/2006 at 15:40

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This was rather good. In fact, I'd say the first chapter was exceptional - it seemed to run into a few pacing problems after that (from when Lionel left Brooklyn to the end felt like it fairly whizzed past).

What I didn't get was much sense of "noir," although I don't consider that a problem. In some ways it seemed almost unreal and a bit cartoonish - I'm not sure if this was entirely down to Lionel's condition and his frequent comedy turns, but it perhaps that contributed. The general atmosphere often felt a bit like Who Framed Roger Rabbit? or maybe an episode of Due South, or something. Considering the subject matter, there wasn't often much "menace" in the air, even when people were being bumped off. "The Clients" were probably the closest thing to it. Yet when he encounters "The Doormen" for example, that was some real farcical stooges/Alice in Wonderland stuff. The homocide detective was a pretty knockabout dude too. I don't mean all this as negative in any way - it kept everything nice and lively. Just a bit "otherworldly" (as, I suppose, most Chandler books are too!)

I suppose I was expecting more of a noir parody, but got a kind of modernised and hyperactive version instead. In other words, the method of sending up the genre surprised me.

The tourettes aspect was (I think) really well handled, which took it above the level of "let's give my main character a fun gimmick." It was really woven into everything, and ocassional sections made me wonder how much direct experience the author has with the condition - if he doesn't have any, it was obviously well researched. Every scene gained extra humour, tension or unpredictability from the possibility that Lionel might lose control and either defuse a situation or massively ramp up the danger. What I did notice was that quite often people tended not to react to his tics particularly, perhaps because it was regularly left semi-open as to which things where happening in his head, which he was restraining or keeping under wraps and which were just being bellowed out.

Little "subplots" (not even that, really), like lengthy sandwich descriptions and musings about Prince were quite cool. I think Lethem was possibly being a bit cheeky here and "using" Lionel's voice to talk about a few things which are important to HIM - but it was interesting stuff and usually an engaging diversion.

RBJ confirms what I suspected about the setting - eg; that it's (liberties permitting) pretty accurate, and probably gives an added perk for anyone reading the book who's familiar with the area he's writing about.

Downsides? Like I mentioned up top, I think the pace of the story was slightly odd. It started off quick and, with the odd pause, only got faster - until the end was on and gone. We got the case wrapped up pretty much in a couple of pages detailing Julia's depressing history. The "Giant" who was utterly badass for most of the book is dispatched pretty easily too. Not a disaster, as I was as interested in just following Lionel around and learning about his world as I was in the specific details of the case.

The whole Kimmery thing didn't really work for me either. I'm pleased Lionel was getting some (and it was great to learn about his gigantic, herculean cock, it really was) - but something about her didn't really .. work. I was waiting for a twist where she became a devious mastermind or part of the conspiracy - but no, she was just a device for some bedroom antics. And, I suppose, a hint that Lionel's tics lessen when he's chilled out or crushing on someone.

Oh yes, and one plot point which passed me by (I think I just missed/forgot something from earlier) - when he's following Tony out of town and sudden realises where he's going, how does he know this? I know there's the "men of peace/place of peace" connection, but suddenly he's pulling out a leaflet advertising the exact place he needs to go to. When did he pick that up, I totally blanked on it?

Jan on 15/12/2006 at 16:02

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Fair enough. Maybe I just had different expectations having read by many reviewers how great a job Lethem is doing portraying a character who has Tourette's. Which I didn't agree with. I think lots of Lionel's tics were funny, entertaining, even lovable. At times I did want to give the guy just a great big bear-hug, and-as Paz said-even though I thought it weird, I was kind of happy for the guy the he got some (Kimmery). But still, for me he remained flat. No angst. No real anger. No real love. (Except for a very few moments. The regret of not being able to have a cat and his explanation of why. Why he likes Prince--priceless!)

As for the rest. It always seemed to me that in well-done noir novels major characters remained one-sided to give them an air of mystery-especially women. With Julia this worked not so much. She came out of nowhere because, I guess, a noir-novel needs a glamorous girl in it? She disappears but explains everything to Lionel in the last (?) chapter. So Lionel didn't really find it out himself, he gets handed a neat little package. To be sure it's a device that's been used before, but it always strikes me as weak. Not so much an unfolding of a good story, as a "well, gotta have a solution, don't we now."

All that said, the more I think about it, the more I'm actually looking forward to the movie--it just might be one of the very rare instances where it works better as a movie than as a book.

Oh yeah, also, wished I'd ever been to Brooklyn at the time he describes, I can see how knowing the setting helps enjoying the story :)

Rug Burn Junky on 15/12/2006 at 17:10

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You know, it wasn't until I read this that I realized what this book reminded me of, even though it was probably subconscioiusly there from the moment I picked up the book:

Lemony Snicket.

Perhaps because I went into the book expecting not "noir" but a parody of noir, much like the Snicket books, I took everything a bit more tongue in cheek. Rather than looking at the absence of menace, or one dimensionality of the characters as a flaw, I took them for granted. I took it as a caricature, or a stylized, cartoonish version of the story it's trying to tell.

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As for the tourrette's itself, I wasn't really distracted by it at all. I think also, it was convincing in its portrayal, in that it got me to relate to it, to the extent that I mentally magnified all of the tics that I, as a normal human being, have, and questioned whether or not I had mild tourrette's myself. (Of course, I instantly disabused myself of that notion by reminding myself that it's like every two bit fucker on the internet that self diagnoses their asperger's syndrome). I know that other people around here also have BIG THOUGHTS™ on that particular subject, so I look forward to hearing their views expanded.