Kangra on 24/5/2022 at 04:25
10. Song of the Caverns
TKO: +? Difficulty: **
KO: 60
Loot: 2920
Pickpockets: 12/13
Locks Picked: 6
Time Taken: 2:27:58
The knockouts out in this one were somewhat challenging to figure out, but not that hard to execute. The availability of gas makes it easier to get through the harder encounters. Even so, the amount of ghosting required just to get into the right position for some knockouts is almost enough to bump the difficulty up to three stars. This one really balances the stealth, route planning, and swift takedowns in a way that makes for a satisfying, if lengthy, total knockout run.
At the start, I went up to the tower guard to score the first knockout. While the key he holds does unlock the armory in the opera house later, I'm fine with just leaving it on him. It turns out the equipment in the armory isn't required anyway, and coming back through would agitate the spiders in the cavern more times than I think necessary.
Said spiders can be simply rushed past on the way down. They get alerted but that's okay as long as they don't end up in the water as a result. I got by them and into the water before they could do anything more than hiss angrily. The craymen in the next area make a little more noise when they get knocked out, so taking them out was a matter of getting the timing right on their routes and hitting them when they are farthest away from the others. I had at least one of them hunting for quite a while but no bodies were found. The last lone one, near the stone stairs, I was not able to sneak up on without putting out one of the torches first (that might be due to NewDark changes).
While Raoul can be knocked out at any point without affecting the objectives (even before he's reached, using a gas arrow), I consider him an ally and not requiring a knockout. The key he provides avoids a lockpick, too. I left him behind and proceeded to the opera house basement.
The guards on the basement level have only a few patrol routes, and the floors are dark and relatively quiet. It's easy to get to them before they cross paths with anyone who's knocked out. The only trouble spot in the basement is the practice room that has four performers warming up in it. They all face in a line. The back two are no trouble. The frontmost two will be set off as soon as one of them goes down, and I could not find a dark enough route that got me in range of them both. So right away the first gas arrow bought was used, with one remaining.
There's a guard on the landing between this level and the ground floor who needs to be approached from the side and knocked out when he's facing the other approach. Coming from below was better, as there is a pillar at the end of the stairs to hide behind if he noticed movement. There is another guard on the stairs at the opposite corner that requires a similar approach (but from the first floor, not from below), and one more on the second level in the 'backstage' area. They have nearby torches, but I did fine without dousing any torches.
Only one person patrols down into the basement from the upper floors; the servant that delivers wine to everyone. I'm not sure when his route starts, but he appeared for me shortly after I came up via the kitchen. I followed him downstairs to take care of him somewhere quiet. The servant standing in the kitchen I saved until I'd completed the guards on the first floor. Their patrols are easy to work around as long as you move carefully.
The guard post required caution when opening the door; I moved it a little at a time and then backed away slowly, and they detected no disturbances. From far out in the hall I fired my second gas arrow at just the right spot to get them both. That allowed me to procure more gas arrows, netting one more that I definitely needed.
The two patrollers in the entrance area also had to be gassed, as they walk out in the open on a path that is brightly-lit and noisy when approaching. I had hoped to use the gas mine (available in the armory) here, but there was no way to hit them both with it. I would have had to set it up and get into position to knock out the second guard simultaneously with the mine going off, and that just wasn't possible.
The 'coat check' woman I could have reached by coming down through the passage on the third floor, but instead I used the route to get behind her that klatremus details, coming to her right side from the dark patch on the carpet in front of the counter. Of course with the guards already out cold I could perform this without having to worry about anyone but her seeing me.
I nearly forgot about the man sleeping on the bench out front, but made sure to KO him as well before heading upstairs. Lord Bafford and his paramour out on the front balcony presented some trouble, as I did not want to use gas again. I managed to mantle up from the stairs and then snuck into position right near the inside pillar. From there I could hit Bafford first, and then the woman. This order prevented any detection of one of them going down.
On the second level and higher, the floors get a lot noisier, and cautious movement is required until everyone is asleep. Nearly everyone who patrols is easily isolated from the other guards, and aside from the central box the opera attendees are no trouble. That left just the four spots where two enemies are close by each other -- the guards at the top of the stairs, the guards outside Lady V's room, the two attendees in the room with the chandelier, and the couple in the box. With only one gas arrow and gas mine, I knew it was going to be tough to get them all.
The bickering couple in the box are just far enough apart and in enough light that I couldn't do the same trick I had done with Bafford and his friend. I did find a method that sort of worked, although it's kind of cheesy: by creeping just a bit into the light, I caused a Level 2 search from the man, but didn't set off the woman. He wasn't able to push her out of the way in his hunting, and when he quieted down he was in range of my blackjack. At that point I could get them both without detection. That's not how I chose to run it, though. Instead I got them both just as they ended their conversation and turn away from each other. That still triggered a "Who are you?" from the man as I moved to take him out, but he was at the right angle not to have seen me hit the woman first (or see her body). Now his reaction is still a high level alert, but in this case I did it intentionally to get the two extra guards in Lady Valerius's room and score an extra two knockouts. To be honest, I'm not 100% sure that this is what brought in those guards. It's often impossible to tell if any other knockout has triggered an alert, and it might well have been some guard that I knocked out that actually caused the extra guards to appear.
The two armed guards at the top of the stairs are farther away from each other, but fortunately can be approached on carpet. All it took was for them to be looking in the other direction. I did have to sneak past the middle guard before hitting him, so that I could get to the second one in time. This is one spot where knocking out one could have also triggered an alert, but I did not hear one if it did happen.
I really wanted to save my last gas arrow for the two guards at Valerius's door, but wasn't sure how to deal with the other standing couple. It turns out, however, that I could sneak carefully against the wall, and then mantle over the chair to get to the far dark corner. That set off several grumbles but nothing higher. From the dark corner of the room, it was easy to hit the two in short succession.
Firing off the last gas arrow at the door to the lady's room involved precise aiming just as at the guard post, with a slight twist since you have to come at it from an angle. Only one guard is visible so it's a bit of a blind shot. I managed it on my first shot, although I had to mess around a bit to figure out just where the guards could or could not detect me, as the margin of darkness is quite small near them.
I did not remember until after running this that I could have tried sandbag tricks. It might save a gas arrow or deal with the couple in the box more efficiently. That's something I might try on a another run, as this was a good mission and fun to do as a TKO.
Cigam on 30/5/2022 at 19:46
I don't think I knew that Bafford himself appeared in the Opera House? Anyway, can you actually get back to the first guard afterwards? I thought that there were points of no return in the caverns.
Speaking of that first guard, notice how on Hard difficulty there is no initial objective to not kill anyone, and yet if you kill him you will fail the future "no killing" objective that triggers when you eventually reach the Opera House? Not fair.
Just wondering though, how do people who write reports like these remember all the details during the write-up afterwards? Ghost, TKO, no horizontal camera etc etc, do the writers just have very good memories, or do they speak into Dictaphones or write extensive notes as they go along? Just curious :)
Galaer on 31/5/2022 at 08:36
Quote Posted by Cigam
Just wondering though, how do people who write reports like these remember all the details during the write-up afterwards? Ghost, TKO, no horizontal camera etc etc, do the writers just have very good memories, or do they speak into Dictaphones or write extensive notes as they go along? Just curious :)
If missions were easy to ghost, then sometimes I could do couple of ghost runs and then write reports from memory. When mission were harder (Sisterhood of Azura Pt. 2 or Rebellion of the Builder), then I usually ghosted part of the mission and then wrote part of the report. The same method I was using with reports of my challenges until lately I started to make notes during my playthroughs.
Cigam on 2/6/2022 at 09:02
That mkes sense Galaer. There's no way I could remember all that detail from memory, for some of these reports.
Kangra on 7/6/2022 at 18:52
11. Undercover
TKO: + Difficulty: *
KO: 16
Loot: 2758
Locks Picked: 0
Time Taken: 37:38
This one isn't really meant for even a mildly violent thief style, and as a result it's one of the easiest to get through. There is one wrinkle to it, something a bit tricky that made me have to replay it four times. Thankfully it is quite short and the knockouts are few in number.
While there are several guards that patrol on similar routes, they spend enough time apart from each other that taking them down in sequence is not much of a problem. I made sure to trigger all conversations first, just to be sure I knew the patrol routes. Then the knockouts began. I worked from the garden area toward the interior, from the catacombs on up, and generally from the back toward the entrance. There was barely a need to pause or wait for the right moment to strike.
The last few to hit were the guards in the barracks and the two in the chapel. This is where I hit the minor snag. In one of the barracks, there are two guards standing far enough from each other that one gas arrow won't get both. Now sometimes you can knock one of them down and the other won't (apparently, see below) react, but I wanted a surer method. Initially I tried firing off a slow gas arrow and knocking the other just as it landed. That seemed to go well. In the chapel, I could hit the one standing to the side and then the other as well, seemingly without a response most of the time. Except, it turned out, that wasn't the case. On my first run I had one body discovery, and on the second try I had two! It turns out that the really slow reactions of the guards may be to blame. I think that they can detect a body in this mission and sometimes not even react at all, or at least not go to alert. Hammers must be hard drinkers.
My solution was to use more gas. There's plenty available at the loadout screen, and only these two spots where anyone is possibly in sight of another body. In the barracks I shot two arrows from the doorway. It was a tiny bit tough to get the timing but not impossible. A single arrow in the chapel cleared that situation without difficulty.
I then swept up the loot and grabbed the talisman. The level technically ends with an alarm still going off but I don't consider it a bust. Ultimately it wasn't a particularly enjoyable level for knockouts, since everyone just kind of goes down so easily. Well, there's always the next level with brand new targets for the blackjack... oh, right.
Kangra on 7/6/2022 at 19:07
Quote Posted by Cigam
I don't think I knew that Bafford himself appeared in the Opera House? Anyway, can you actually get back to the first guard afterwards? I thought that there were points of no return in the caverns.
Speaking of that first guard, notice how on Hard difficulty there is no initial objective to not kill anyone, and yet if you kill him you will fail the future "no killing" objective that triggers when you eventually reach the Opera House? Not fair.
Just wondering though, how do people who write reports like these remember all the details during the write-up afterwards? Ghost, TKO, no horizontal camera etc etc, do the writers just have very good memories, or do they speak into Dictaphones or write extensive notes as they go along? Just curious :)
Bafford isn't named directly, but there's a letter you find somewhere that he presumably sent to whoever it is he's wooing. And then you steal the gift he was going to give her.
To get back to the early guard, you have to use a speed potion in order to swim back up the well at the end of the craymen caves. It's another reason I avoided taking the key, since there's certainly a sense that you aren't meant to be able to get out that direction. And while I don't rule out using potions, I try to avoid them if possible.
As for my own write-ups, I do it from memory. Of course it's only the trickiest parts I write about, and I remember those best. Sometimes I go back and replay a spot over just so it sticks in my mind better. Though I'm generally better at composing my writing in my head and then writing down the first draft all at once. So once I start writing up a mission, I've already played it. That said, there could be mistakes in my descriptions; I wouldn't say my memory is anywhere near perfect.
Cigam on 8/6/2022 at 16:28
Fair enough. By the way, what do you mean by 'slow gas arrow'? Is there some trick to vary their flight speeds?
Here, let me write the mission 12 report for you:
[end of report]
:)
downwinder on 8/6/2022 at 17:28
take a left at the sewer then your in ,yesssss you innnnnnnn :)
Kangra on 9/6/2022 at 17:46
Quote Posted by Cigam
Fair enough. By the way, what do you mean by 'slow gas arrow'? Is there some trick to vary their flight speeds?
Gas arrows and fire arrows are unaffected by gravity while in flight (presumably they're magic). The pull on the bow actually affects their initial speed since they always fly straight to the target. So if you hit the button just briefly when firing, it'll fly more slowly. Not quite slow enough that you could run ahead of it and be hit by your own shot, but slow enough that you can accomplish something else before it lands.
Kangra on 10/6/2022 at 16:59
The last few missions (Escape in particular) are way harder than I expected. I didn't realize just how many enemies there are, since you're expected at this point to either just rage out and kill 'em all in revenge, or stay as far away from them as possible.
But I am making progress. Did you know that the objective for leaving Constantine's mansion persists in Escape!, even if you go back inside?