Kangra on 3/5/2022 at 17:41
4. Assassins
TKO: - Difficulty: ***
KO: 53
Loot: 2705
Pickpockets: 8/9
Locks Picked: 5
Time Taken: 1:19:43
This has some complications that made it a bust. Nevertheless, it has some of the most thrilling knockout sequences possible. Although it starts with two characters you can't knock out (yet), the opportunities for knockouts build up quickly. While trailing them back I made sure to send everyone I could see on the streets to dreamland. That was three servants/civilians and two city guards. As long as you know the route of the thieves you can veer away from them fairly easily without failing the mission, so there's plenty of time to knock down the other city-dwellers.
Of course, once you get to the mansion, everyone is fair game. I wasn't able to get to the two thieves, as I was too far behind them when the mission shifted. I don't know if it's possible to get close enough to get them before they get inside. I was worried about what might happen to the bodies of those I'd left in the city, but it turns out they get magicked away as soon as the objective changes. I'm guessing that also happens to anyone still walking around, as I didn't encounter anyone on the street when I went back and checked.
Back at the mansion, I wanted to work from the outside in, and bottom to top. There are five guards that patrol around the perimeter, and two more posted on the wall (facing inward). As you get near the front door there's a conversation between two of the patrollers about Cragscleft being shut down, and then they split up.
What follows is perhaps the best experience I've had doing TKO so far. I didn't really plan this (outside of knowing I needed to get all five before any noticed
and do it in locations that won't be seen by the later guards who pop in), it just happened to work perfectly. I'll recount it as it happened:
Quote:
I follow one of the guards that leaves from the front gate and head off to the right, making sure to sneak slowly through the noisy gravel. At the exit from the gravel I dash across into the dark area directly ahead. The guard overhead wonders a moment if there's something behind him, but then brushes it off as nothing. From there I make haste to hop between shadows as I follow the path of the patrolling guard; I pass even closer to the watchful eye of the archer above, but the shadows are dark enough that he still doesn't spot me. I manage to get behind the patroller just as he's about to turn back around, and score knockout number one.
At this point I can still be a bit leisurely. There's a body down, but no one's going to patrol here for some time. I saunter along the waterway (making sure not to fall in early, as that current is strong) and head to the back of the house. A quick dip in the water is required to get to the northeast corner. I head around the corner and in the distance I can see another patrolling guard. The shadows here aren't great, and the space is too narrow, so I need to somehow get behind him. He makes a turn into the courtyard and I hop to the side he just came from. When he exits the courtyard I let him go a little ways into the shadow, and hit him.
Now I have to hurry. Hopefully I didn't let him walk too far ahead. I need to rush to get around the northwest corner of the house, past the grassy corner and into the narrow space along the western wall. There's a guard walking up and I dart into the far shadow near a storage tower. The guard passes peacefully. I let him continue his patrol.
At this point I'm really on the clock. The guard I just let pass is going to turn the corner and head toward the courtyard. If he gets too far he'll find the body back there. The reason I let him go, though, is that there's another guard fairly close on his heels. I don't want to run the risk of the second one spotting the one in front's body, and there's no good hiding spaces outside of this spot by the tower. So, safe for now in a deep shadow, I hurry up and wait. Once the second guard passes, I hit him and take off like a shot around the corner. How close is the guard to the courtyard? He hasn't reached it yet. Thanking the heavens for the relatively quiet grass, I rush up and knock him down. That's one...two...three...four. I need one more. One more guard that is getting ever closer to the first body I dropped, and here I am on the complete opposite side of the house!
Running pell-mell down the western wall, I realize that there's no time to dodge into the shadows or creep through the gravel at the front gate. Instead I swing open the southwest tower door (it's helpfully not locked), and take the stairs up. I'm on the wall. The archer on this side is in sight; his back is to me and he's only focused on who or what might come in from the front gate. I run about as far along the wall as I dare, and get into the shadow of the mansion. Slowing my pace just a bit, I get behind this guard and knock him out with one sharp blow.
With no time to lose, I continue into the empty guardhouse over the main gate. I come out the other side. There's the other archer ahead of me, and his back is to me as well. I can see the last patrolling guard down on the ground. If I don't act now he's going to turn the corner and spot the body of my first target. Not bothering to tell the guard that there really is someone behind him this time, I bash him good and he goes flat. Without a second to spare, I hop to the ground. The last guard is walking along the front tower. He's nearly around the corner, almost in sight of the first body, when I swing my trusty blackjack and hit him square in the head. He's out cold. Five patrols, two archers, all clean knockouts and the outside grounds are clear.
The most fun part of that, of course, is also doing it all while hoping that the bodies aren't in spots that the later spawned-in guards might see. In hindsight, that sequence can be done more methodically from one side to the other, since none of the routes form a full circle, but it was a whole lot more exciting to do it on the clock.
I didn't want to pick any locks if I could help it, so I entered the house via the rear courtyard (the central door is unlocked). Somehow in my running around I had triggered the conversation of the two guards that were out here, which is unfortunate as it caused trouble later. Once the guard at the front door turned around, I snuck into the hallway. I didn't have any keys yet, so I stayed on the west side of the house.
Initially, there are just two guards patrolling the halls. I knocked out one in the stairwell and the other in a somewhat dangerous location, right in the middle of the hall connecting the east and west sides. With those down, I had less to worry about with the guard room/quarters, which I knew would be trouble. This is where the two guards from the courtyard ended up. It's also where the two thieves that I trailed stop. I think one more guard comes over here if you don't stop them, and it'd be a real party in the room. Not to mention the two nervous servants in the adjacent chamber. Luckily, it's almost completely in darkness.
Entering from the hall, I could knock out the first guard near that door without much of a complaint from anyone else. The two thieves and the other guard, though, are where I ran into trouble. Opposite them is a guard just waiting to push the alarm button, and he's in fairly good electric light. I definitely can't get behind him without the others seeing. Even knocking out all three on the other side is a tough sell. I did manage that, but the guard near the alarm got set off. Then, just as he turned to press the button, he froze up for a moment, as if he wasn't quite in full alert mode. I was able to knock him out in that moment. To me it's a bust, although as I found out later it may have been a somewhat fortuitous one.
The very next room (with the servants) is similarly tricky, made so because servants have a tendency to run rather than search. These two in particular are close enough to each other that they always notice the other falling (even if you KO the other just after, you get an unconscious person creepily shouting that they've seen a murder, so that's a body discovery). I had to split them up safely. To start with, I needed less light in the room, so I doused the torch. Then I waited for the servant in the kitchen to be called downstairs to Ramirez. With him gone, I started tapdancing in the kitchen. Fortunately this only drew one of the servants to investigate, making the knockout process a relative breeze, since I could hit him before he got too close to his partner.
With that handled, I headed downstairs to get the servant in the basement so he'd be out of the way (I allowed him to make his delivery first). With his Basement Key in hand, I snuck into Ramirez's private money chamber and knocked the lord of the manor out cold. Taking the loot was not as important as getting the key on his shelf, since it's a skeleton key for nearly every room, with the upstairs bedrooms as notable exceptions.
There's a 'Trophy Room' adjoining the courtyard which I knew would also be a thorny one. It's one of the most brightly-lit rooms in any mission, and the two guards in it are right in view of each other. There's no way to get to them without being seen, and no way to darken their surroundings. I decided to bring them into the hallway. First I needed to douse the two torches in the hall. I opened the northern door to the room and made a bit of noise. With the torches out, I could hide practically anywhere. One of the guards started searching all the way to the stairwell, and after the other went back in the room, I was able to get him out in the hall. I still had to go all the way around and be cautious approaching the one who'd gone back into position; the room's so brightly lit that he can still spot a lot of movement, especially after being alerted.
With Ramirez's key, I could get into the 'Storage Room' section on the other side of the first floor. Two guards have a conversation, and then start a patrol that would take them toward the first two patrollers in the halls I'd already taken down. So I got one before he opened the door, and took the other in the hall while he was heading the other direction. The timing needed some precision, but it was nothing too difficult.
Since I had already pickpocketed Ramirez, there was an extra 'thief' guard posted at the front door, right next to the original door guard. I waited for this to get both there because I couldn't let him pop in on top of a body. Happily they switch facing at the same time. It's still a bit nerve-wracking to have to cross the stone section of a well-lit room and just hope they don't suddenly turn on you. I also could not get them both to go down without a bit of a yelp from the second one as he saw the first fall, but it was not a body discovery, just the start of an alert. I think this was also the pickpocket I missed, since I rushed it trying to see if I could do it with neither being aware. It's easy enough to pick the door guard earlier on, and probably possible just before the knockouts as well.
That covers the ground floor. On the upstairs, there's only the servants near the library to take care of. This again takes some slight amount of quick action; I had to let them separate, but get both before they ran into any bodies downstairs. I don't think it would have been advisable to let them loose before knocking the rest of the house out.
The last guards were the new thieves around the outside: One on the northeast corner, who is easy to get, and two in the front (opposite the archers, whose bodies they thankfully did not notice). The ones in the front I approached from the outer part of the grounds, as they have good vision on the well-lit front area. Neither presented a problem, as there's a lot of darkness around them.
Thanks to the fire arrows at Farkus's place, I could re-light the torches I put out. There are only two doors with locks that must be picked — the two smaller bedrooms. The master bedroom can be reached from outside, by jumping from the tower (the tower can be unlocked with the Courtyard key).
Once I put everything back as neatly as possible, I headed outside, and found that I had to satisfy the 'get to home turf' objective. I'm not sure what triggered it, but it might have been the guard that had been alerted who I managed to still knock out. Or it was just all the knockouts I did. It could also have been that I intentionally agitated the burricks for fun when I returned Ramirez's key. I was hoping to get this objective anyway, just to see how many more knockout targets there would be.
It turns out there are quite a lot. The challenge for TKO here is that they just keep coming, so you need to drop them before they find any unconscious bodies that will litter the streets once you start. They often come two or three at a time, but bunched up, so it's not too hard to slip behind and get the groups in quick succession. At a few moments I did get worried that a body would surely be discovered somewhere else on the map, but that never happened. It's actually not that hard if you know the map and clear all routes as you go. I took out no less than 16 along the way, and I don't know if there are any more. I was truly happy to be back at home turf at the end, finally ready to hop in bed and just pass out.
Kangra on 6/5/2022 at 05:09
5. The Thieves' Guild
TKO: - Difficulty: ***
KO: 69
Loot: 2716
Pickpockets: 9/18
Locks Picked: 14
Time Taken: 2:36:59
Bodies Discovered: 1
This is actually the first level I ever attempted in this style. It's a sprawling level with a lot of targets. My previous run took over three hours, and I had a blast, even if I did not get all the knockouts that time. This time I improved and took everyone down. Unfortunately, as the stats show, the run was busted by a body discovery.
Everyone is mostly spread out, making each section easy enough to handle, but there are enough spots where routes cross for a bit or are in sight of others that picking the sequence and location for a takedown requires some care.
At the start, it is possible to hit at least one of the people who head through the front door, but I just let them pass and went for the back door (making sure to nail the patrolling city guard first). The restaurant presented no challenge, and I proceeded to slide down a rope arrow into the casino. The casino, on the other hand, presents a really huge challenge. It was here that I failed in my initial run. I was hoping to do better, but still could not get through it cleanly.
The early part of the casino is no trouble. The lone guard looking out on an empty room provided a key for opening up the door later, and the patrolling one circling the center was dropped in the section he was watching. The real trouble starts in the rooms where the people are busy gambling, and I was faced with guards and gamblers in close proximity.
On the north side I took out both of the torches in the central divider as a start, since even the far one sheds too much light on the gambling table. The first standing gambler (nearest the restaurant) can be taken down with barely any reaction from the others. Then, using a crate to assist, I crawled into the window next to the guard on the restaurant side. Knocking him out caused a bit of a reaction from the other guard and the remaining gambler, but they settled down fine. Then I snuck all the way around to get to the other guard. Doing that required me to douse a third torch, the one near the secret door. While it's possible to sneak in behind this guard when there have been no alerts, he was a lot more jumpy with his partner down. The earlier alert also made it harder to knock him out, but I was able to pop through the window and hit him in one quick motion. The other gambler was easy enough after that. (Previously I did this by taking down the gamblers first, but that caused a second-level alert and made it even tougher to get both the guards.)
The other side of the casino presents one of the toughest conundrums for the would-be knockout master. There are four people here, all in pretty good sight of each other, and facing enough different directions that taking them all down cleanly is a problem I have not yet solved. I did however improve on the first time I tried this, when I simply gave up on the two guards since I couldn't knock them both out. This bust still happens, because it seems they always spot one of the bodies (NewDark seems to have made this more likely as well).
One of the gamblers will always fall right into a fairly bright patch. It's actually quite hard to get both of them fast enough that the other doesn't react, but I think I managed that (there was no mention of seeing a body, which usually happens even if they've already been knocked out). The guards inside got upset when it happened, and searched a bit but settled down very quickly as I remained in darkness. I don't know for sure if they possibly spotted the body at some point when I was in the basement. When I experimented by ending the mission without having knocked them out, I still had one body found, so either they had seen it before or the other gambler actually had, which is probably more likely. I did determine that it was this body by deliberately letting them find it in another experiment -- the stats screen still showed just one found.
Because the gamblers being knocked out caused the Level 2 alert earlier, it is tough to sneak in from behind the casino guards when you get into the basement. The room they are in is too well-lit. I also tried sneaking in without knocking out the gamblers, and while I could get behind one guard, they're too far from each other to get them both fast enough. As soon as one starts to fall, the other will whip around toward you. Not to mention that the gamblers go nuts and run.
So it's not possible to get them while they are standing there, and it's better to knock out the gamblers first. I saved those two guards for the very last. When I got to the back entrance (after clearing the rest of the level), I found that merely opening the gate was enough to trigger an alert. Whenever that happened, they didn't typically enter into the passageway behind, and in fact more often than not would head out into the casino. This is also a point where they might spot the body, even while staying in their initial room. There's no safe dark spot inside the guard room, so even letting them wander in there didn't buy me any opportunities to knock them out on a return trip.
I did eventually come up with a solution, but it is itself another bust, since it uses a noisemaker that is not recovered. Once they started hunting as the gate opened, I shot off a noisemaker in the dark passage behind the door. That eventually brought at least one guard out to look. However, you can't hide in the passage as it is too narrow, and neither can you be just outside it, as the room is lit with a light that can't be turned off. I was able to head into the nearby carpeted room, which has fully dark areas that allow observation of the opening to the passage. The guard came out, poked around a bit, and then headed back in. As soon as that happened, I ran as fast as possible, and I managed to hit him just before he got back to the gate. The second guard was easy enough after that. It's an improvement on just leaving them, but with one body discovery that's almost certain, a noisemaker used conspicuously, and enough hunting that they'd be awfully suspicious, it's not a very satisfactory solution.
The south basement itself, which I'd finished earlier, has some long and overlapping patrol routes. I went down first to the lower 'blue' stone room (from which the back route to Donal's house begins) and knocked out the patrolling guard. Then I went up and triggered the conversation between the guard and servant, so I could get the servant who also heads through the blue room. Next, I took down the guard the servant had spoken with, making sure to have him in a place that the casino guards wouldn't spot later. That made the last few knockouts in the basement easy.
In the north basement, the only trouble spot was the stone chambers with the carved windows, near the entrance to the upper sewer. There's a guard who has a very short patrol route, and it requires a quick dash to knock him out. Additionally, if his body is too close to the door, it'll be detected by the servant in the adjoining room as soon as the door opens (not a body discovery, but it triggers a second-level alert, and makes getting into that room much harder). So I had to time it just right and knock him out as he stepped briefly behind the pillar and then turned toward it.
Almost everything else was no trouble. There are just a lot of guards to hit. Minimal evidence rules required me to return the safe key and lock several doors. During the course of this I discovered that the courtyard in Ruben's house actually counts for 'city streets' and ends the level if you step into it, so I had to make sure to avoid it on the way back to the restaurant.
All in all, still a very fun level. When it was my initial attempt at this style it was a good starting mission, as it delivers so many opportunities for clean knockouts, ranging from the simple to the toughest I've seen.
Cigam on 8/5/2022 at 00:29
Did you know that you can influence the direction a KOed body falls? If you want them to fall backwards rather than forwards, you hit them lower down the body, almost as if you are aiming for their ass.
I've used this on the male gambler in the Casino before now, as him falling forwards always seemed to alert someone before I could scoop him up and away. I also found timing things with the intermittent strobing light nearby made a difference.
Also used this technique in Rebellion Of The Builder 2, when a Hammer falling forwards would see them fall into the plain sight of other Hammers.
One other thing, and I have not confirmed this personally, but I've heard that you can knock people out by throwing sandbags at them.
Well just thought I'd mention these in case you didn't already know, and they might help somewhere.
downwinder on 8/5/2022 at 00:32
i am glad on 4. Assassins you knocked them all out , farkus would be proud
Kangra on 9/5/2022 at 21:49
Quote Posted by Cigam
Did you know that you can influence the direction a KOed body falls? If you want them to fall backwards rather than forwards, you hit them lower down the body, almost as if you are aiming for their ass.
I've used this on the male gambler in the Casino before now, as him falling forwards always seemed to alert someone before I could scoop him up and away. I also found timing things with the intermittent strobing light nearby made a difference.
Also used this technique in Rebellion Of The Builder 2, when a Hammer falling forwards would see them fall into the plain sight of other Hammers.
One other thing, and I have not confirmed this personally, but I've heard that you can knock people out by throwing sandbags at them.
Well just thought I'd mention these in case you didn't already know, and they might help somewhere.
I think I kind of knew you could influence it, but didn't know exactly where. That might help on some of these levels! Especially since it is probably the other civvie that's busting the body detection. I have encountered other situations where it seems like enemies that are 'slow' to react won't play any body discovery message but it still trips, and you see it at the mission end.
Quote Posted by downwinder
i am glad on 4. Assassins you knocked them all out , farkus would be proud
I hope I did, not sure how many there really are, but it should have been enough to let him rest in peace.
Kangra on 10/5/2022 at 05:23
6. The Sword
TKO: + Difficulty: **
KO: 25 (1 AB)
Loot: 2656
Pickpockets: 7/10
Locks Picked: 4
Time Taken: 1:52:21
Bodies Discovered: 0
Maybe the first proper TKO. And nearly as clean as can be, with only a few L2 alerts. I probably should have gotten all the pickpockets, but I don't consider them a priority.
There is no part of the main house that presents any difficulty, just patience with the noisy floors at times. The patrols near the 'tower' that houses the sword do provide some challenge, though, so I'll focus on that section.
Two of the guards (on the 'outside' area) have overlapping paths, and due to the marble floors it isn't really possible to get from one end to the other after hitting one. I took out a torch at one end of their route, which let me easily get one from behind. The other one I had to get from the front, because once they even got close to the doused torch and the other body they started to grow suspicious. With the torch out, though, it was possible to hide in full shadow right at the corner of the hall, and I could hit the approaching guard without being spotted.
On the bottom of the sword tower, there are two guards standing next to each other. I doused the torch on the left, then went around and snuck in behind them. Even with the one torch out, there's still a lot of light, but by hugging the wall I avoided notice. I knocked out one and was able to creep over and get the other before he noticed anything was amiss. There's also a patroller that goes through the passage behind and below them, and it's hard to get to him easily. It would probably be easy to just make the whole passage dark (or mostly, as one end is lit from glowing sources overhead). I did it with just two torches out in the hall. Even when I was in as much darkness as I could manage, just before the guard was about to bump into me he noticed something was wrong, but didn't pull his sword. I got him from the front. There's a nearby patrolling guard which requires an airborne knockout if you don't want to douse torches -- I hid in the grassy tunnel above him and leapt down as he passed by. Nobody else was near enough to hear the clatter.
That left the three guards in the upper part of the tower, at the place closest to the sword. Two of them don't move until you get close enough to trigger their conversation, so I made sure not to come near them without handling the other one first. A rope arrow at the right spot gets you up to this level without setting their conversation off. I then went around to a place that has a long, somewhat darkened tunnel, away from where the sword is. The third guard (who has a health potion on his belt) patrols in a pattern that eventually leads through that tunnel. While the space is somewhat wide, the darkest patches are in his path, so you can't hide well without dousing torches. I did it without using any water arrows by hiding at the far end of the tunnel and coming out just as the guard turned. I think the noise did cause a L2 alert, but he went down before really knowing what hit him. I then went around behind the other two and knocked them just after they finished their conversation (they needed to be slightly farther apart to avoid an immediate alert).
Once all the guards were knocked out, I was able to re-light the torches I'd put out earlier, and then grab the sword and slip out of the house with no trouble at all.
downwinder on 13/5/2022 at 02:12
must have felt good to k.o. the rat men in sword,i cant stand them
Kangra on 13/5/2022 at 04:09
7. The Haunted Cathedral
TKO: + Difficulty: *
KO: 3
Loot: 2635
Locks Picked: 7
Time Taken: 1:22:32
Bodies Discovered: 0
Another one that is barely a challenge beyond a ghost-ish run, although with the craymen there are technically knockouts available. I also knocked out one burrick since it's so easily done, even if it provided no real benefit. Ultimately, though, it ended up being a relatively normal run, not much of a TKO at all.
This level does have the problem of having burricks stuck in deadlocks or on lampposts. Even with my tolerance for alerts, it was harder than expected to pass by without them attracting any additional enemies (which I don't allow). In one case, I had to draw off one and then draw it off farther away so it wouldn't go back to being stuck on the same route. Then I had to go back and rush by another one stuck on a lamppost. Although the second one saw me clearly and roared, it was alone so no other enemies were alerted. Knocking them out wasn't really an option as they tend to be too close and would draw in others by alerts. I might someday do a run trying to KO all the burricks safely, but don't hold your breath for that one.
This is the first time I've done this mission while trying to pick as few locks as possible. I was happy to discover that one of the rooms behind a locked door can actually be reached via the second-story window (it's the one near the eastern side of DePerrin Street; you can leap from the lamppost and also use the same lamp it to break your fall when exiting). It was also kind of interesting to get to the various points on the Market Street side without picking any locks; I ended up doing a fair amount of swimming back and forth.
An easy run after the last few which were moderately tough, but perhaps a bit too light on knockouts. This is the lowest number in a mission that has enemies that I would actually count for the challenge.
Kangra on 13/5/2022 at 04:11
Quote Posted by downwinder
must have felt good to k.o. the rat men in sword,i cant stand them
That's an interesting thought, are they actually ratmen at that point? I figure they get transformed only after Constantine shows his true colors, but maybe they were always hidden rat- (or ape-)men.
Cigam on 13/5/2022 at 16:29
On a whim I decided to give the sandbagging I mentioned above a try, to confirm what I had heard, and yes it works. Throwing a sandbag at someone gives the same results as if you were throwing the blackjack at them.
I found some in the theatre area of Song Of The Caverns, and not sure if there are any in Thieves Guild, but it's a possible option for when you have two NPCs a distance apart, and who will react to eachother's KO. Throw a sandbag at one then quick as a flash blackjack the other.
Still though, it's amazing to me that I can still keep discovering new things in Thief, even after all this time.
Next thing on the list to confirm, as I forgot when I last played, is something I heard about every doorway having a line of perfect shadow at some point as you cross the threshold.
