Kangra on 22/4/2022 at 18:34
In a (
https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=151688) recent thread about knocking out every enemy, I brought up the rules that I've played by to make the game interesting while trying to knock out all enemies. This thread will be a chronicle of playing missions in that style, which I call 'TKO'.
The rules I've used are detailed in the linked thread, but the general principles are this:
* Every creature that could reliably report the presence of a thief is incapacitated ("knocked out") at the time the mission is done, and any discovery of this happening occurs well after the thief is gone.
* Aside from missing loot, there should be no clear evidence of the thief's presence, or anyone recalling actually seeing a thief. Preferably nobody recalls anything unusual occurring at all prior to becoming unconscious.
* No deaths or serious injuries have been caused directly or indirectly by the thief's presence.
The desired effect is that it is as if a wave of sleeping gas (or a spell) came over the whole area, allowing someone to swoop in and pick the place clean, with no one the wiser until the next morning.
The particular mechanical requirements are no bodies found, no bodies may be moved, and no alerts above L2 (and those only if necessary). While all enemies should be knocked out (even those that patrol in far-off areas), undead and non-sapient enemies like burricks do not count.
The stats will indicate what are reported from the game. Additionally, I will indicate how successful the run for the TKO rules (+ or -) , as well as how difficult it is to complete, using a one to three-star rating (- for zero stars if TKO doesn't really apply).
For now, I'm playing Thief Gold with TFix Lite 1.27
For completeness' sake, here's the tutorial mission:
0. Keepers' Training
TKO: - Difficulty: -
KO: 0
There's no way to succeed here, as you have no means of knocking anyone out. The Keepers that judge your first few tests do not disappear, so they are valid targets. The 'guard' you spar with is also valid (and can't be knocked down). Unfortunately since there is no objective telling you not to knock anyone out, it has to be considered a busted run rather than a voided one.
Kangra on 22/4/2022 at 18:42
1. Lord Bafford's Manor
TKO: -? Difficulty: **
KO: 24
Loot: 1429
Pickpockets: 4/4
Time taken: 1:02:32
The majority of this mission is indeed a simple job. Guards are sparsely separated and I could practically knock them out as I met them. It is probably feasible without triggering any 2nd-level alerts. However, the front gate area is much tougher than anything else, which is why the difficulty is bumped up. There's also one room that is potentially a bust, depending on how much evidence can be tolerated.
In the servants' quarters (lower level, at the back of the house), there are two servants who stand facing each other in a moderately well-lit room. There can even be another person in the room, as this is where the servant who enters through the front gate ends up (although it's safe to knock him out pretty much anywhere on the street at the start of the mission; in my run he was not present). Either way, knockouts cannot be done without some messing around. The occupants of the room are in enough light that you cannot get to them without dousing both of the torches and plunging the room into full darkness. Personally, while I think one torch in a room is acceptably low evidence, two in the same room is asking too much. Since I couldn't do it without taking out both torches, and we don't have access to fire arrows yet, I have to consider it a bust. It may be possible to take out one torch, hit one and then rush to the other before they go to full alert, but I didn't try it. If the torches are out, there's no problem with bonking them in any order, as they won't notice a thing.
The front gate area has two, or really three, trouble spots. On the upper level, overlooking the entrance, there is a crossbow guard on either side. These face outward but also somewhat in view of each other. In each room a patrolling guard walks behind them, and this guard steps very briefly into the adjoining room (which seems to be the guards' bunks/resting area). The set-up is nearly symmetrical, and on either side there is a dark area where I hid to hit the patrolling guard just as he passes into the outer room. That keeps the standing guard from making any comment. While the standing guard seems like an easy target, the first one you knock out may be visible to the other side. I couldn't get anywhere near the window, and if the body falls too far forward, there will be some notice and probably a second-level alert. Leaning in from as far out as possible, I accomplished the knockout without a grumble from the other side. The second one is of course easy, as no other guards will spot them, although I still had to get the patrolling guard at the right spot.
Finally, there's the three guards at the front gate. They all face outward, so the knockouts from behind are not an issue. They won't notice the gate rising up behind them (the switch is right next to the entrance), and there's even a nice dark patch on the border of the doorway to act from. What's the problem, then? Well, the two guards nearest the entrance are right at the top of stairs. Once they are knocked out, their bodies are likely to slide downward, causing the bottom-most guard (the bear pit fan) to become alerted. Even if he doesn't turn around right away, in that state he can't be knocked out and will probably see the body in a moment. Getting to him is the hardest, as making a quick move down can also make too much noise. Not only that, either one of the two at the top may react as soon as you hit one of them and the body slumps forward. I went first right, then left, and then made a deft slide forward and to the right that put me in range to knock out the last one, and oddly enough the front-most guard had commented but then settled just before I hit him.
With all the guards knocked out, the key to the well room could be returned without having to block the door. I held off on the scepter so I could go outside safely. It's worth pointing out that you probably won't be able to knock out all the guards at the front gate if you complete the objectives first. The gate itself also has an external control switch (on the right as you face it), allowing it to be closed after exiting. However, it was easy enough to dash out after hitting the switch on the inside, to keep the levers in their original position.
Galaer on 22/4/2022 at 19:34
Quote Posted by Kangra
While all enemies should be knocked out (even those that patrol in far-off areas), undead and non-sapient enemies like burricks do not count.
Why do you exclude burricks? They also can be knockouted. Though it's loud. The same goes for craymen, apes, bugbeasts and frogbeasts. The last 3 can be taken quietly.
Kangra on 22/4/2022 at 21:01
I think of the requirements more along the lines of who is capable of reporting or aware of the crime, as opposed to who can be actually knocked out. I consider burricks to be too far down on the sapience level to know that Garrett is a thief as distinguished from a simple threat when seen. They would not be aware of what he did once he's gone. So, they're optional by my standards.
Of course, it's a sliding scale. I tend to put the more humanoid creatures on the 'need to be KO' list since they seem to have more means of communication and memory. Bugbeasts are kind of on the edge but I'd probably count them in. The Flame Guardian becomes kind of a problem since they are most likely intelligent and capable of reporting the thief, but just don't seem to interact with anyone else. Same with the Golden Child, who probably should be KO'd by my logic, and only sort of gets a pass since they are ignored.
I have considered trying a run with all knockoutable enemies included, especially since in TG there are several levels with no real enemies for this challenge.
Galaer on 22/4/2022 at 21:59
Quote Posted by Kangra
The Flame Guardian becomes kind of a problem since they are most likely intelligent and capable of reporting the thief, but just don't seem to interact with anyone else. Same with the Golden Child, who probably should be KO'd by my logic, and only sort of gets a pass since they are ignored.
Fire shadow counts as undead just like zombies and haunts. Golden child is made out of metal, so it's most likely the robot. Because of that both enemies are immune to knockouts.
Kangra on 26/4/2022 at 16:54
2. Cragscleft Prison
TKO:+? Difficulty: **
KO: 25
Loot: 1688/1688
Pickpockets: 11/11
Time Taken: 2:35:07 (including wait exploit, see below)
The lower levels in the mine are full of zombies, so the first part of this is just a ghost run. It's okay to have them grumble, but we can't allow any to become active that aren't already. The trickiest point is in the room with the 'generator' (coil device); to pass this bit, I hopped on the mine cart and then jumped over to the hole in the wall. The zombie made noise, but didn't get up. Higher up in the mine, the zombie patrols just need to be avoided. I had to avoid setting off the skeleton trap as well, but it was easy enough to get into the factory via the stairs. The guard standing near them is in enough darkness to be hit from the front; you can also sneak by and drop him from behind as well.
The factory isn't too tough, as the targets mostly stay separated. Noisy patches need to be crept around on carefully, at least until everyone's asleep. Each of the 'workers' can be hit when they are either leaving or coming back to a metal grate area. I also had to remember to go down the freight elevator from the inside in order to get the other guard that patrols partly into the mines.
At the initial entry point to the prison, there is a guard station that's a bit too well-lit to knock out the guard while he's still standing inside it. I waited for the conversation to finish, and then knocked out the guard who goes off to patrol. I made some noise on the stairwell, and that brought the one in the station out to search. I hit him as he was almost back to his spot. I tried to time it so he'd be fully inside the station, but I didn't quite make it; he ended up right outside the door.
The two guard stations with 'cameras' are easy enough to pass, since the guards can be hit from the side, or you can sneak in behind them. The camera is the only thing to look out for, as it gives no delay if it spots you.
The cell blocks require some stealth, since all the patrols will cross the same spaces. Firstly, I had to observe the pattern of the patrolling guards, so that I didn't end up dropping one in a spot where it could be quickly discovered. I also went around and took out the guards in the cell control stations, to make it a bit easier to move freely below them. I had to avoid alerting anyone in the cells; Cell Block 3 is the hardest for this, since there's an easily-alarmed person in the cell right by the guard station. I had him poking around his cell at one point, but he eventually was quiet. After that, I took out the patrols. In Cell Block 1 and 2 I got one just outside the central 'yard', and then one in the long ramp between levels. Next I slipped into the 'yard' and hit one more on his route between Cell Blocks 3 and 4. I had a slight moment of panic when I couldn't find the fourth, until I remembered that he was the guard I hit right after the conversation when first entering the cell blocks.
As for the prisoners, I considered it unnecessary to actually knock them out, as long as they stayed in the their cells. Technically I do have the means to open and shut their cells, so they aren't inaccessible, but none of the guards seem to listen to them about a thief, so I think it's okay to let them be. Also, they only have one health, so it's impossible to knock them out without killing them. But I was curious to see what happens if you let them go. I was wondering if they'd run to the mines and get into a fracas with the zombies. But it appears that if they run, and no one stops them, they go through the factory, then down the stairs right near the mines, and then run behind those stairs. I did not determine if they are able to 'discover' bodies (their behavior seems to be set to just run, since they don't react to anything along the way).
The rest of the level is quite easy, except for the Hammerite priest and the novice in the 'chapel' room near the barracks. I could only get them using a waiting exploit (which isn't excluded, but doesn't feel great). Over time, the novice will drift forward, towards the corner of the altar. It took about 25 minutes for me. I had first made the rush up the stairs into the one dark spot, and then I just let the game sit for a bit. Once the novice moved close enough, I could blackjack him from the front by leaning over. The priest never noticed, and the altar hid the fallen body from his view. Then it was easy to slip behind the priest and knock him out.
I had previously tried to do this by making noise to draw them out. It seems in NewDark paired enemies are more likely to get into a mutually-reinforcing alert trigger pattern, causing them to shift around unpredictably and take several minutes before calming down. Luckily you can crouch down in full darkness here and they won't detect you, but actually scoring a knockout is unlikely. Making any movement is probably too much noise, so you have to just sit there and hope that they pass by you when they return to their station. It is possible to score a knockout during their searching, but that is a clear bust, since they can't be actively searching during the knockout. So it's either exploit the engine to some extent or get a lucky break after causing an alert. Maybe not technically a bust, but as I said, it doesn't sit well with me.
I exited with Basso through the waterfall, and then got on to the elevator in the mines. The zombie patrols still had to be avoided, but it was not too tough. I never had to go down into the lowest level (where the spider is), since there's no loot or useful gear there.
downwinder on 26/4/2022 at 22:39
did you also knock out any inmates in cells? to add to ko total?
Kangra on 27/4/2022 at 21:17
No, I didn't knock out the inmates because they only have one health and it kills them. It would only be possible to do it on Normal difficulty.
downwinder on 27/4/2022 at 22:42
great report then i look forward to the other reports,as i am a knockout type myself
Kangra on 29/4/2022 at 17:50
3. Down in the Bonehoard
TKO: - Difficulty: -(** for burricks)
KO: 16 (burricks)
Loot: 2450
Pickpockets: 0
Time Taken: 1:40:12
With no targets that really need to be knocked out, there isn't much to be done for this mission. Following the rules amounts to more or less a ghost-ish run, with a little leeway when it comes to the enemies. To make it a bit more interesting, I decided to see if I could knock out all the burricks. It turned out to be a more trouble than expected.
Strict adherence means that getting the Mystic Soul is probably a bust unless you do stacking tricks to reach the 'exit' ladder; there are too many enemies fully alerted otherwise. I did light the torches from above (using a rope arrow to climb up on the ring overhead) and dove straight into the water as soon as the floor opened. Each time, the Flame Guardian would start to come back. I don't know for sure if any zombies saw me, but with the fire arrows going off they come out somewhat alerted anyway. After I got the Mystic Soul, I saw that a couple of the zombies had wandered over to the exit area, and there wasn't any way to drop down without notice. What I did was shoot a fire arrow at the ground. This brought everyone over to check it out. Meanwhile, I swam back under and then hopped back overhead to douse the torches. The Flame Guardian happened to be standing near the sliding tiles when they closed, and he got stuck in the floor. Also, for some reason the zombies all crowded to one side of the antechamber, so it ended up being easy.
Returning the golden bones leaves more evidence of someone's presence, so I skipped it. The reward is just equipment, and therefore unnecessary. The loot that's near inert zombies can be picked up by running/jumping fast enough, and they made noise but didn't get up. There are a couple of boulder traps which I also think show enough evidence to be a bust. Ultimately it makes little difference since the spirit of the challenge is mostly lacking in this mission.
Knocking out the burricks (with no bodies discovered and no direct detection) added some variety at least. Several of them are on their own and easily hit. They make enough noise to almost always trigger hunting if any burrick is close by, but it doesn't quite travel as far as it might appear. It's typically a matter of finding knockout locations where the body won't be spotted. In the 'upper' caverns that have a large water pool at the bottom, the ones in the tunnels were far enough apart (or in dark enough patches) that knocking one out did not fully alert the others.
The first hard area with multiple burricks is early on, before entering the Halls of Echoing Repose. The burricks patrol on fairly random routes, but tend to stay near one another. There is one large and rather dark corner where I got one while it was separated enough from the others that they did not see me hit it. I then had to shoot off a fire arrow to draw them away to a far cavern. Once they returned to normal patrolling, I got another one as it entered that same dark cave, and the last was easily stalked. To get the lone burrick that guards the 'wrong' statue room, I had to ghost by it to the rope, and then I dropped down from behind to approach it safely.
The other big burrick spot is the Horn of Quintus entrance, which is simply stuffed with the foul-mouthed creatures. Most of them are actually pretty easy to deal with, since you can find the 'intended' route to the horn and get behind them without notice. The stationary ones are either away from the others or in enough darkness that no bodies will be found if the others hunt. There are a few next to each other that I first distracted from the post, so I could get the lone one farther away (it did not react to my noise). Then I hit the two quickly from behind. The real trouble is the large chamber with four of them all relatively near each other.
Knocking out at least one of the other burricks had already agitated this group a bit, so I had to be careful when going near them. Inside that chamber the far side is actually very dark, much darker than it appears. I wanted to see if the one that stands behind the others could be taken down without causing high alert. In order to get back there, I needed them all to move out of the room first. I shot off a fire arrow in the passage near the north end of the room, and lured them farther north into the empty chambers there, since they would be in no danger of discovering any bodies in that direction. Once I was in the room and they all returned to their posts, I took down the rearmost burrick, and found that indeed it's not discoverable -- the other three all investigated the area but did not react when they walked across their unconscious pal.
That left me with three burricks: two facing an easterly direction and one which is more or less guarding the northern passage. By then they were riled up enough that I could only exit by dashing past the third one; even most attempts to draw them all to the far side of the room by shooting a fire arrow failed when they turned in my direction instead as soon as I moved to the exit. Running past the third burrick set off another round of hunting. I was able to get them hunting again into the northern chambers, but instead of hiding in darkness, I ran off farther away, hoping that some would return and one would be left.
The trouble is that there's no real way to tell which one is the straggler of the group, or even if there will be one far enough behind. It took a few attempts to get the burricks to come in without also spotting me. From my tests, if the straggler is the one at the northern passage, that's ideal, since the other two can be hit from behind without them getting to full alert if you're fast enough (a speed potion would help but I did not use it). If it's one of the others in the room, then the first burrick drawn off must be knocked down in a dark area or very far from their post, since getting the last two in that case requires drawing them off yet again in that direction. In the run I saved stats for, I had actually drawn the third one quite a ways off by a stroke of luck, so that it almost surprised me when it was heading back and passed right by me.
While I was pleased to discover that this room could indeed be cleared, it wasn't all that enjoyable. Burrick behavior is much more random than guard searches, so the direction they hunt is hard to predict, and the aural feedback is often very tough to pick out when there's more than one. There's also the off chance of them just getting stuck on geometry. It makes dealing with groups of them involve a lot of hoping for the right moment. Simply clearing the last three took 20 minutes of the mission time, and most of that had to be replayed several times to tell if it would even work.