Kangra on 30/1/2023 at 17:58
12. Kidnap!
TKO: + Difficulty: **
KO: 41 (1 AB)
IB Disabled: 6
Loot: 2988
Secrets: 1/1
Pickpockets: 10/10
Locks Picked: 6
Time taken: 1:38:39
This level has a lot of intersecting guard paths, as well as Watchers covering a lot of the locations. When being sneaky (especially if ghosting), this one is a constant challenge. It is a bit less interesting under these rules. But as long as you're armed with plenty of gas, it can at least be a full TKO. Sadly, it doesn't really reward pulling off any tricky moves that seem like they might be possible. It's often too hard to get behind some guards without either some other guard or a Watcher catching you. The more direct method of gassing enemies is the usual way. In total I have spent far longer on this level than on any of the others, mostly in just figuring each site out. That was honestly a fair amount of fun, but it seemed to so often result with only one apparent way to finish it. Having already done that work, there wasn't much more to do on the final run aside from trying to improve the timing a bit.
With gas being a practical necessity at more than half the sites, it is fortunate that we were able to stock up on it. There ought to be just enough gas arrows and mines, based on what was purchased (and picked up) in the previous mission. I came in with 4 gas arrows and one gas mine. There are four more gas arrows and two more mines that can be picked up in the level. Gas mines are rarely useful, however, since most guards that need gas are stationary, or they patrol over a very short distance and would hear the mine setting up. Several potions are at hand if gas is lacking (there are three invisibility and one speed obtainable), but I prefer to use them only as a last resort. It was possible to complete the mission without drinking any potions, as long as I made use of all the gas I had brought and could pick up.
The Base Camp is nothing too difficult. I made sure not to read Cavador's itinerary, since I wanted to keep him confined to his chambers. Stopping him from making his rounds also prevents any lights at the sites from turning on, which would have made the job harder if not impossible in some cases. I cleared the handful of guards and bots in the first camp and then made my way to Site 5. I moved stealthily as I didn't want to leave any bodies in the 'main' city site yet.
At Site 5 I had to pick the lock on the doors; the key is on Cavador so it can be re-locked later, and since Cavador is leaving, it's okay to keep the key as well. I took out the two guards in the halls, and dashed past the Watchers to reach the rear entrance of Cavador's room. I opened the door to his room and fired one gas arrow into the low wall. It knocked down the rearmost guard on Cavador as well as the one pacing inside the chamber. Then I blackjacked Cavador and the lead guard from behind before they could react. The rest of the guards in Site 5 are sleeping, and no other patrols disturb the site, so it was no trouble to finish them off.
With Site 5 and Brother Cavador dealt with, all the other sites remained with their guards to be knocked out, as well as numerous guards wandering in and out of each part of the city. I wanted to clear the patrolling guards first before I finished off the sites (not all sites have patrols go through them, but it seemed easier to just handle them all first). The particular guard routes are difficult to discern, as they don't always seem to start their patrol until you get near the site. I'm pretty sure I've seen a guard re-spawn on its route as well, since at least in one run in vanilla Thief 2 if it'd been following the whole path there should have been a body discovery. Another issue is that these guards may get stuck while being followed (especially near slopes), and they'll start circling around in a way that makes them impossible to knock out safely. They can be reset by moving away from them and returning.
I started off by heading south from Site 5, into the long loop that goes by Site 3 and then to 4. I found one lone guard in these passages and knocked her out. Then I took care of the four that head out in the direction of Site 2, as they can be trouble if not removed early on. As it was, they were spaced out just enough that I could proceed from one up to the other with hardly a break or any danger suspected. I finished the last one off just before reaching the ramp to Site 2.
From there, I headed back around to the north end of the central chamber. There's one standing guard in the middle that a lot of the patrols pass by, and I wanted to save him for later as well, so I avoided getting close to him. He's pretty easy to sneak around even if you don't take side passages, as there are a number of dark spots. In fact, I was able to take good advantage of the deep darkness in the high connecting passage a little north of him, the one which goes to the southern part of Site 7 (it's also the route guards take from the 4-way junction you first encounter when coming from the Base Camp). I knocked out one guard there and waited for another to come; he did not spot his friend and ended up falling in the same spot.
Next, I headed north toward Site 1. Several guards move around in this region, although one that I followed kept circling back on me instead of going toward Site 6 so I had to leave him for later. I headed over through Site 8, which triggered two more to head out in the direction of that first '4-way junction' room. I took them out in a somewhat risky bright spot, and hoped that no more would spawn on this side of the city. Then I returned and finally got the guard that left from Site 1; he was farther into the tunnels on the way to Site 6. An additional guard was heading into Site 1 when I came back, so I got him as well. There was one last patrol that was heading over to Site 8. While I probably could have rushed around through Sites 7 and 8 to get him that way, moving that fast risked setting off Watchers or some of the posted guards. I instead went back through the houses south of Site 7 and into the junction room and then up near Site 8 before he arrived. I managed to hit him just before he spotted the two bodies I'd already left on that route.
With the patrols dealt with, each site could be handled separately. Well, almost. There was actually one more guard who popped up only much later, when I was going from the central chamber toward Site 5. The whole mission was nearly sunk when I first heard him coming my way, as I thought I would have to hide and then he would end up finding one of the bodies. I reloaded and found that if I rushed to the passage where I thought he would spawn, I could reach a place to knock him out safely. As far as I could tell, that was the entirety of the patrols not contained to a single site.
As for the sites themselves, I'll list them in numeric order although this wasn't quite how I completed them. I'm also indicating the patrols that can pass through an area for others who might be trying to TKO this mission, as an alternative method would be to go site by site, and only take down patrols as they approach each site.
Site 1
Here there are four standing guards, plus one more that patrols in a tight path up and down the stairs. The patroller I dealt with in the dark stairwell, without anyone noticing. The other guards are paired, and facing too near each other to be taken out individually. For the two at the control stations, I came out from the stairwell and fired a gas arrow at the mage in the corner, and then rushed to knock out the near guard before anyone could react. I also switched off the lights to make it a bit darker and prevent an alarm from the other two nearby guards.
For those other standing guards, I did pretty much the same maneuver. I shot a gas arrow at the farther guard and rushed the closer one. It actually is possible to blackjack one of these guards and not alert the second right away (especially with the lights out), but they will eventually react, and I don't think there's enough time to get around behind the other one. I did try dropping down from the bridge to hit the one on the other side first, but it seems to make little difference.
There are at least two guards that patrol into this area.
Site 2
The theater's stage with the two separated enemies on it is the only complication. I knocked out the patrolling guard at the top of the seating area, and the two on stage did not notice his body at all. I had to use two separate gas arrows to get them, though. An alert with a gas mine thrown on stage might bring them close enough together, but I really didn't want the alert, especially as it could have set off the lone guard outside. An invisibility potion works here as well if gas arrows are lacking, but you have to make a run down from the right side (facing the stage) and be fairly quick about it. The other guards in the site are no problem at all once this room is cleared.
Several guards pass through this site but don't go into the theater. They do pass close enough to the guard outside the theater that if he's knocked out, it will cause a first-level alert.
Site 3
There's nothing too hard here. The Watcher covering the wide pit is kind of a hassle, but at least everyone is well-separated from each other. I started by disabling the Combat Bot close to the ladder that leads down from the very top. Then I had to scramble down the ladder and over to the safe spot directly beneath the Watcher. Since this ladder is the safest spot (it's full darkness) the only difficulty was actually hopping onto the ladder. Once I got to the bottom of the pit, I disabled the Worker bot, and then hid next to the ramp until the guard descended and I could blackjack him. Finally, I went back up the ladder and timed my run with the Watcher's swing to knock out the last guard. One of the gas mines in the nearby chest can be used here, as it's one of the few times gas mines are usable, but it was not necessary.
Nobody patrols from outside all the way into this area, so it's safe to clear at any time.
Site 4
There are no really hard moves in here, just a particular order to avoid triggering any reactions.
I took down the guard who patrols around to the 'front' of the tombs first, since no one else comes over there. Then I moved quietly and cautiously along the tracks to get behind the guard on the upper level. I knocked her out and the guard below did not notice. I dropped down to the lower level and got him as well. (In original Thief 2, I usually had to knock the lower one out first since their positions seem a bit different). With him down, it was a series of dashes between Watcher cycles to get into the tomb right next to the one at the far corner. Inside that last tomb was a standing mage, who can be easily rushed, though again I had to time the Watchers to avoid alarms.
A fair number of guards (at least four) come through this area on a long patrol of the southern side of the city.
Site 6
This is one of the most difficult spots, as there are basically three distinct enemies, and they are just far enough from each other to not be easily taken out together, while also close enough that any one going down might alert the others. It is the only site where there might be only one shot at getting them all, and only when first entering the site.
The only really safe direction to enter is on the darkened right (western) passage, as a Watcher guards the main way in. Once you advance far enough the first time into this site, one guard will leave the control box and go speak to the other for a relatively long time. What I did first was toss a gas mine in the place where he was standing. Then I got into the adjacent dark building, from which I could target both the Combat Bot and the other guard. I fired off one water arrow at the Combat Bot's boiler. This possibly triggered a first-level alert but those are almost impossible to tell when a conversation is going on, and if it did happen they were back to normal before they finished talking. The second guard left to go back to the controls and promptly stepped on the mine. I had a few seconds to fire a second water arrow at the bot, and then a gas arrow at the guard. All of them went down without any noticing the other or alerting.
I did try other approaches here. The guard at the control box is probably the least likely to detect any of the others falling, so he can possibly be saved for last if you can get the other two safely. It is easy to get behind the Combat Bot and knock it out, but the standing guard will probably start to react as soon as it breaks down. I have seen her not react initially, but it's quite rare, and I've never managed to get over behind her before she eventually spots the disabled bot. I also did not try this in TFix, so I don't know if it is less or more reliable. A gas arrow on her takes her down. However, I'm not sure if you can then get over to the second guard in time unless you get lucky. Otherwise another gas arrow is needed on him, and that would mean more gas arrows required than I used, which might not leave enough to finish the whole mission. Another option is to take advantage of the conversation in a different way: disable the bot, then hit both guards with one gas arrow while they are close (or do that in reverse order).
No patrols come through this site.
Site 7
There are four guards here, and while this needs some speed it is not too tricky. Only one guard patrols, and he's easy to isolate. I knocked him out inside the room with the light controls (I did not need to turn them off). The guard outside at the control panel does seem to be in a dark area, but it's actually too well lit; if you do manage to get down there, you'll probably get caught by the Watcher. A gas arrow is the only way I could handle her. After I had knocked out the patroller, I circled around to the southwest side. I fired off an arrow at the control box guard, rushed the guard at the ramp, and then ducked under the ramp. I timed the Watchers, and finally hopped up and knocked out the last guard inside the room. It's usually possible to wait some more after hitting the one with the gas but I kind of wanted to do it quickly. In original Thief 2 the guards seemed to eventually react when someone nearby gets knocked out, but with TFix it seems like they take a little more time to notice something is amiss. I can't be sure of that, as it's been a while since I did this mission without TFix.
Several patrols pass through this site from the south end.
Site 8
The standing guard inside next to the big gear can only be taken out with a gas arrow; there's no other way to get at her aside from alerting her to hunt out of the room (which itself is still pretty hard to do). There is a standing guard at the other end of the site, and a patroller that passes between them. I chose to start on the north side. A quick dash let me get down the stairs and into the dark room next to the stationary guard; it's easier to see from there where the patroller is on his route. Just after the patroller turned I knocked out the stationary guard. Then I waited for the walking guard to reach the room with the gear, and I fired a gas arrow that got both remaining guards. While it is possible to blackjack the patroller right after getting the northern standing guard, it's pretty tough to get them without being spotted by the Watcher. I opted for the more consistent gas arrow option, given that I would've needed one for the last guard anyways.
At least one patrol that goes through Site 7 heads over into here.
Site 9
Nothing to be done here but knock out the patrolling bot upstairs. Nobody else enters this site. There's a gas arrow on the upper level here that might be needed, and it can be retrieved at any time.
That's a whole lot to do in this level, and while it is nice to have one this big that can be accomplished as a TKO, it is, as I've said, not particularly satisfying when you get down to it. Merely getting through all of this mission takes a fair amount of work, certainly much more than just a run of completing the objectives. I remain somewhat annoyed at how the guards reset their patrol routes in any mission, and it's far more obvious here. Ultimately, some of the moves required do make it a halfway-decent challenge, and each site is a puzzle in its own right. I just feel like there aren't as many interesting choices as I would have hoped for from such an expansive level, and once each one was figured out, there was little that would make me want to come back to it.
Cigam on 6/2/2023 at 13:42
Where are the hidden frogbeasts in Trail of Blood?
Interesting reports once again, Kangra, and I'm still discovering new things about the OMs after reading them.
Just out of interest, why do you KO sleeping NPCs? I mean, the sleeping gas has already got them :)
Kangra on 6/2/2023 at 18:50
Quote Posted by Cigam
Where are the hidden frogbeasts in Trail of Blood?
Interesting reports once again, Kangra, and I'm still discovering new things about the OMs after reading them.
Just out of interest, why do you KO sleeping NPCs? I mean, the sleeping gas has already got them :)
The 'hidden' frogbeasts was kind of a joke. You can hear the same sound they make when walking around the level, which is probably just a trigger on a sound file, but it can seem as if they just hid a frogbeast nearby.
I KO sleeping folk to up the KO count, of course. :)
(I don't actually look at those numbers too much, but in theory a higher number means a better job done, since gas knockouts are not counted).
Probably it should be an optional thing to do. It would make Tracing the Courier easier to do all at once, though probably still not possible with that one guard up above.
It's also that sleepers are alerted almost as easily as anyone else, depending on the sleeper.
Kangra on 6/2/2023 at 18:51
13. Casing the Joint
TKO: X
Loot: 2585
Secrets: 9/9
Pickpockets: 8/9
Locks Picked: 0
Time taken: 1:36:18
Another one with no KO allowed.
I did this without picking any locks. I skipped out on 100 loot (and a pickpocket) from the guard on the central outdoor balcony, as I didn't want to waste time trying to get either down or up to him.
I really don't like this level, and I suspect I'm not alone in this. It's not just that I couldn't do TKO here. The level is just so obviously unfinished and nearly broken. By far my biggest gripe is that getting to the actual 'streets' does not end the level. It's especially painful that getting out by the very route you apparently entered is insufficient. That is unforgivable. Instead you have to go out the front of the house into a walled and gated courtyard that is — very obviously — not the streets at all.
There was a final insult to injury on my run: The guard at the front door became permanently glitched to face toward the door, making it impossible to get by him and pick the lock. I ended up having to break the glass and hop out. I'd blame TFix here, but really it's on the level designers for having such a terrible and restrictive end condition.
Kangra on 13/2/2023 at 22:23
14. Masks
TKO: + Difficulty: **
KO: 39 (1 AB)
IB Disabled: 5
Loot: 3667
Secrets: 3/3
Pickpockets: 11/11
Locks Picked: 7
Time taken: 2:12:45
It's unfortunate that the content of this level is spread across two missions. While I think this mission is better than the previous one, there are still parts of it that feel incomplete. It is also one that is not too hard to do as a TKO, as there are only minor concerns about overlapping enemy routes. The challenge here isn't really in scoring all the knockouts, it's doing so with minimal evidence. I was again hoping to get by with as few picked locks as possible, but to get all the knockouts (and full loot), I needed to pick no less than 7, which really feels like quite a lot.
After taking out the two guards on the outside doors, I went in via the secret entrance by the shed to the first floor. Initially I avoided the hallway and proceeded through the southern wing via the secret passages. That prevented the need to pick any locks, and in fact, I did not need to pick any locks at all on the first floor. The only tricky spot in this first wing was the small room (almost a closet) which has two people in it, a man talking to his Servant. They stay in there after the conversation, and are close enough together that it would seem to be possible to blackjack them both. However, I could not manage to get in the room and hit them without causing a full alert from them. Instead, I used my first gas arrow to cleanly quiet them.
The only other complication on the first floor was the guard station (in the northeast). There's a guard posted inside, facing outward, and another that patrols the hall. The patrolling guard actually passes surprisingly close to the dark wall when he enters the outer hall and it's hard to find the spot to hide (this may be a change due to TFix; I'm not sure). It took some tries before I could hide securely and then hit him without him noticing me. But with him down, I was able to sneak past the window with the other guard. Once I got inside his room, I ran into trouble trying to knock him out. He's positioned a little back from the window, and can even nearly spot you as you come in the door to the station. It was not possible to sneak along the far wall, as it's too brightly lit there. I could sneak over to the corner closer to him, and could almost touch him from there, but I still needed to step out in order to hit him. Every time I did that, he'd alert right away. I thought I might need another gas arrow again.
However, I found a way to rely on the blackjack. Instead of trying to hit him, what I needed to do was go past him. Surprisingly, when I rushed to go behind the guard instead of at him, he only barely reacted. It somehow happens fast enough not to trigger the immediate drawing of a weapon, whereas going for a strike does. Once I got behind him, it was quite easy to bonk him on the head.
With the first floor cleared, I then wanted a way to get to the second floor while still avoiding lockpicks. I headed for the storage room on the southwest side, as it connects to the grand central ballroom. Here I had a little bit of trouble, as the guard below would sometimes spot me through the balcony floor (I think this may be a minor bug of TFix; the enemy overhead vision is better but that doesn't take into account a room like this, with a partial balcony/overhead walkway). I had better luck crossing on the overhead beams to the north side of the room, and from there I dropped down and could clear the lower floor easily.
One of the second-floor passages (on the north side) from the ballroom is unlocked, so that got me into most of the rest of the floor. On this floor, I opted to clear the hallways first. It was a bit of a pain to sneak by the Watchers (especially in the northeast corner), although there are safe corners to move between, and once I figured those out it was not too bad. On the southeast side I found it possible to hug the wall right next to the Watcher, and it usually would not spot me at all.
There were no unlocked doors into the rooms connected by secret passages, so I had to pick at least one door on each side. On the south, I went for the room with the Watcher controls, so I could temporarily disable them, even though that wasn't really necessary since I had cleared all the guards in the halls already. The secret passages here gave me access all the way from the Library to the Bar. I cleared them out and saved the outer balcony for later, since the doors were locked and I was hoping to access it some other way.
I also did not use the door to exit the Library, and instead snuck around the front of the guard post to get at him (and to gain access to the third floor passage). I needed to douse the light to do this, but I was able to light it back up once everyone on the floor was knocked out.
In the north wing, I not only had to pick the lock to gain access to a room that connected to the rest, but also pick the lock on another room farther down the hall, as it contained a sleeping person (and some loot). I also had trouble at the guard station here. It seemed to be impossible to make any move toward the guard along the hall in front of the station, as he would spot me quite easily, and he would hear me if I tried to move to a dark spot. The only way to proceed was by using a gas arrow. That scored me the very unusual 'sitting' unconscious person, since the guard remained stuck in his chair and facing outward (and that nearly gave me a fright later when I thought he had woken up somehow). The second guard back there, at the elevator, also needed a gas arrow. I had to fire it from around the corner at the wall so that he would not be alerted at all.
The third floor doesn't have any enemies that are hard to reach, so it was relatively easy. The only tricky aspect was the paired human and Combat Bot patrols, of which there are four (two on each wing). Since the bot moves a bit faster and they go on mostly the same path, they eventually end up nearly stuck to each other. Generally I could hit the bot, then rush ahead and get the guard. In the northwestern hall they were still far apart from each other, and I had to wait for a while before I could catch them (in that case, I hit the bot going one way, then rushed to hit the guard before he passed in front of the Watcher). There is another bot and human patrol inside the room with the Cultivator, but they were more easily separated, as only the guard heads into the stairwell.
In all, I had to pick two more doors on the third level (one to the Cultivator Room, and the other to the Study, although the Study only gives access to loot). It would have been nice to be able to use the elevator to get down to the second floor and save those gas arrows, but getting through the door requires destruction of property as it cannot be picked.
Finally, all that remained was the guard on the balcony. I had assumed that there would be some way to ascend to the balcony from the outside, and I'd be able to knock him out by creeping around quietly. However, I could not find any means of getting up there. There appears to be not a single crate remaining anywhere in the house or the garden. There's no way to get out of the third floor (to drop down) without breaking something or picking a lock either. That meant I needed to pick one more lock just to get outside the house once more and score the final knockout. And of course that isn't the last lockpick required, as you once again have to fulfill the annoying 'get to the streets and by streets we mean front of the house' objective to finish the mission, and the only way out that doesn't break a window is again through the front door.
This level is much more tedious than it is enjoyable. There were a few parts that were exciting, but in truth they were quite few. The rest of it was a slog, and especially so since the map is a retread of the previous level. It just doesn't feel like it's worth going over the same ground so much.
Galaer on 26/2/2023 at 22:46
Quote Posted by Kangra
There was a final insult to injury on my run: The guard at the front door became permanently glitched to face toward the door, making it impossible to get by him and pick the lock. I ended up having to break the glass and hop out. I'd blame TFix here, but really it's on the level designers for having such a terrible and restrictive end condition.
That's not a glitch. After conversation with priestess, guard always face front door. I think the intended way is to lure him out with noisemaker arrow.
Kangra on 7/3/2023 at 17:46
I meant that he didn't turn around during the conversation either, though.
It's the same thing that happened here:
(
https://youtu.be/1QtV9f1Q24M?t=4719)
But I realize from that it's probably not TFix's fault, and it looks like I maybe could have reloaded to get it working.
Kangra on 7/3/2023 at 17:50
15. Sabotage at Soulforge
TKO: - Difficulty: *
KO: 8
IB Disabled: 0
Loot: 0
Secrets: 1/4
Pickpockets: 0/0
Locks Picked: 3
Time taken: 2:12:39
Bodies discovered: 1
Unfortunately, a TKO run of Thief 2 peters out in the final three missions. This last one specifically has little reason to do it as a knockout run. It cannot ever be successful, as there are not enough water or gas arrows to take out all the mechanical patrollers. There are almost no challenging KO locations, either. On top of that, there's the issue that everyone left inside is going to die anyway, and there's no later discovery of the theft, just a need to foil the plans of Karras here and now. At least I can say that Karras would have had almost no idea of what I was doing or where I'd been, so that unlosable objective was secure.
Since I knew this would be a bust, I tried to come up with at least some kind of a TKO-style challenge. What I went with is knocking out only human enemies, and leaving all the iron beasts functional, while still keeping to the other rules (low evidence, no bodies found). Of course that second one is kind of busted from the very start, since there are already corpses of Combat Bots remaining from the fight prior to Garrett's arrival. I verified that, indeed, the one that's indicated in the stats at the end is only the one at the starting area, so I don't count that against my altered TKO run here, since the corpse was someone else's doing. Outside of that, it was mainly going to be a matter of finding the right place to take down opponents.
I did consider other ways of going about it. There are a fair number of water arrows available (27 if you purchase and pick up as many as you can). That would be enough for 3 Worker Bots and 12 of the other bots, be they Combat Bots or the new Spiders. However, that's still nowhere near enough for the bots that can be seen, or just the bots that patrol. On top of that are the 'hidden' ones that can come out when an alarm goes off. I do recall attempting something like getting as many bots as I could the first time I played in this style. Trying to clear portions of the map of bots can be a worthwhile goal, albeit still not a tough one. The enemies are too spread out, with only a few places where a patrol might cross paths with a disabled bot.
The modified challenge, while a bit tougher than just trying to follow normal rules, and requiring a modicum of planning, turned out to be not all that hard. There just aren't that many enemies. I did have to check on some of the longer patrol routes which can run over the same ground or very close by to some locations. There was also the difficulty in getting past all the remaining iron beasts without being detected, but since I've ghosted this level before, I had a pretty good idea of what to do.
At the start, the Watcher immediately started to go off, and I had to duck quickly into the shadows close to the wall. It did not set off any alarm, so I was okay. I then moved through the factory area to get an idea of the guard routes (and also trigger bot patrols, except for the Spider Bots at the far North Apse). There are only two humans walking in the whole area, although the routes they travel are mostly covered by other enemies. Instead of taking them down immediately, I went into the plans room to get the mission going. There was one knockout in here, but as they are the sole occupant of the room, there was no trouble to it.
As I traveled around making the required parts for the beacon, I took note of where I could safely take down the guards. One of them I took down in the dark area on the west side, in the small space between the corner room and a larger chamber outside of Bay D. I later saw a Worker Bot go through there, and it did not notice the body, so it was safe. The second patrolling guard comes out on the west side of the North Apse, and there is one dark corner at the edge marble floor of that section. The guard cuts that corner, and I hit it there. This didn't seem to be quite total darkness, but when the Spider Bot patrolled through there, it did not discover the body, so that one, too, was safe.
I finished off building the beacon and then headed into the large northern area of the map to start switching off the towers, and to locate any necessary knockout targets. The first one I encountered was one of the toughest, a lone guard in a room lit by torchlight in the room just to the northwest of the North Apse.
The issue with the room is that there's a stationary Combat Bot that is facing in the direction of the guard. I could sneak into one side of the room and safely hide by the wall, but it was tough to make any headway farther into the room. Here I had to first take out one torch, so that there'd be enough darkness to move safely over to the guard. Since this room is also the route that some Spider Bots patrol through, I doused a second torch to be sure. That also made it much easier to sneak past the Combat Bot, and I later watched one of the Spiders pass through the room without noticing the body. I don't know for sure if it could be done with just one torch out, but it seems possible with some luck on the patrol routes.
I then went over into the 'furnace' room that has a periodic blast of bright fire in the center. Several guards patrol here and they tend to bunch up. It was easy enough to hide out from them, but I could not quite knock out all of them before at least one would be alerted by the noise. As a result, I ended up using a gas arrow to knock them down. By firing at when the group was turning around at the end of their patrol route, it was possible to get almost all at once, quietly, and whoever was left standing could be blackjacked easily.
This room also was also where I found a strange bug. One time, I entered by dropping in from above into the center of the room, just to see if there was anything special about that passage. When I did, I found an extra guard patrolling behind the others! I'm not sure if that was a bug in spawning them, or possibly I had somehow caused someone else to enter the room and get 'caught' in the patrol route, which seems just as unlikely. I didn't really preserve that run anyway, as there is no point in going in that way, and I'd taken a bit of damage while doing so.
Most of the other locations only have bots patrolling them, so it was a matter of simply being sneaky. After I'd cleared the room with the guards in a line, I continued through the rooms on the east side of the cathedral. With the towers there taken care of, I passed to the other side, and handled the 'computer room' and the 'tank room' on the west. Dodging the Watchers was the only real tough part of these rooms, as the Combat Bots are fairly easy to sneak past. In the large tank room, I discovered that it was possible to get remarkably close to the stationary Combat Bot by the elevator. I could even switch on the elevator to move it, but couldn't ride it up as getting on to it seemed to alert the iron beast. Instead, I used the method of creeping across the overhead beams to reach the tower in that room.
The 'turret room' is the one antenna access room that can't properly be ghosted. My rules technically might allow passing through it since there are no other enemies in the room, except that I'm fairly certain that once the turrets start firing, the Combat Bot that patrols in the 'chimney room' outside the chapel becomes alerted. The turret shells also tend to cause enough destruction to violate my evidence rules, given how many explosive and easily-damaged items there are in the room. A proper run can ignore the room, as it's not necessary to switch all the towers to finish the objectives.
I nevertheless decided to suspend the rules, just to see if I could accomplish something like 'sneaking' through the room. What I wanted to do was to take a route that would be at all times safe from being hit by any turrets, whether they were activated or not. As long as it was possible to take a path where luck did not become a factor, it would be acceptable to me.
The first thing I had to do was fire an arrow at the button on the far side of the room. That takes out one turret, one I would otherwise have had to pass close by. I don't think there's a safe way to get around it otherwise, on the route I had chosen. With that turret gone, I crouched down and crept along the bench. The only turret that responded was the one at the end of the bench where I'd started, but it did not detect me until I was safe from its arrows. When I reached the wall I did have to rush out to get into the side passage, but it was not a tricky move and just relied on going fast, not luck.
Heading in there did trigger at least one other turret on the far side of the room. However, I was able to climb up and cross safely well above where any of those turrets could hit me, so even if I stood still I was untouchable. It was not too difficult to get over and down to where the gate switch is, either. Once again, I just needed to duck out, hit the switch, and get back in before anything could hit me.
The other 'catwalk' crossings were more in range of some of the turrets, but I was still fine as long as I did not stop moving. I considered that still an okay run, especially as the turrets would stop once I reached a dark corner. At no point did I feel like I had to rely on special circumstances to avoid them. The final drop down on the ladder was also reasonably safe, as the ladder is dark for the most part. I could stop if I needed to take a break, and once at the bottom, there's a safe corner out of sight of any of the turrets.
I dashed into the room that led to the tower. Here I knew I'd trigger some of the turrets, but they were once again too late to hit me before I moved inside the room. I went up, flipped the switch, and then came back down. I'd seemingly accomplished my task of 'safe sneaking' through the room, and all I had to do was go back out the way I'd come in.
Unfortunately, that turned out to be a failure. Once I left the room, I dashed back to that same safe corner where no turrets could reach me. However, it became impossible to get back on to the ladder. No longer would the turrets stop firing when I reached the dark spot on it. The one that was nearest the antenna room did not fail to track me. Even if it stopped firing when I moved to a spot it could not reach, it would start up again the instant I was in its arc, no matter how hidden I appeared to be.
The only way to get out of the room safely, then, was to use an Invisibility Potion. I drank it before leaving the antenna room, and that gave me enough time to get on to the ladder without triggering any of the close turrets. Exiting the rest of the room was again just a matter of crossing on the catwalks and going quickly. I was disappointed that I could not get past it even with my modified rules.
As mentioned, setting off all those turrets seemingly set off the Combat Bot back in the 'chimney room', which gave me some trouble when I passed back through the room. While it was patrolling normally, it would go to full alert at the slightest noise, and would often seem to spot me almost as soon as it passed anywhere near me unless I could get up into one of the chimneys. I nearly had to give up on the run as there was no way to bypass it, but I did manage to get through the room safely, and thankfully had no more reason to go into that area again.
I will also mention that even though I did not actually unlock the door that's in that room on my run (the one that leads to the hall with the Mechanical Cherub), I still think it's one of the worst decisions of TFix to make this cherub patrol. In the original mission, there's nothing useful down that hall, and unlocking the door just to see the little golden boy staring back at you is one of the best moments of the level. It's sublimely unsettling, because he does not detect you when you open the door, but you just know that there is nothing you can do to get past him. Having him stand nearly motionless, seemingly staring straight at you without actually seeing you is a great way to indicate that this room is impassable, in a way that is frustrating to the player but also worthy of respect. Turning this unbeatable but harmless entity into a chump patroller that can be easily bypassed really destroys that moment. About the only compliment I'll pay it is that having him patrol into and out of the darkness does look pretty neat; it'd be better to have that occur with some other enemy instead of him, however, since he is such an eerie presence in the game.
The last section I had to cover was the two towers that are access from the lower level. They are also the only ones that had any knockout targets for me to take care of on my way to the tower.
The first room was probably the only actual room that presented any difficulty for my plan of only taking out humans. Initially I was worried that it wouldn't be possible due to the bots patrolling around the room along with two Mechanists, especially since so much of the room is lit up. However, the bots take a different route than the humans do, in that they move a bit more of an east-west loop, while the humans move around two pillars on the south side that the bots never pass.
It was those two pillars where I would need to take down the guards, one for each pillar. Even then it was still risky, as the pillars are close enough to each other that one guard could spot the body of the other. I didn't think it likely that I could hit the trailing guard, then run to the next pillar and hit the other from behind. Instead, I took down one of them just at the southwest corner of his route, as there's a little bit of darkness there that I hoped would be enough for the second guard not to see. Then I waited for the bots to pass, and got into position to hit the next guard on the southeast pillar when he looped back around to it. It turned out on my first run that I didn't hit the first guard far enough ahead, as the second guard did not alert but I still had a body found at the end, and had to redo this final section. It seemed on my second run that he might have almost been in sight of the bots, but I think due to the way they are moving on their route, they don't spot him even though I had knocked him down just past the corner of his route.
The remaining guard, down in the depths of the cathedral, was easy to take care of. I simply switched off the lights, snuck past all the bots and the Watchers, and took him down in the dark. That done, all I had to do was switch the tower, turn the lights on, and then get back out to the front doors and watch the whole thing come down. Before I did, though, I tried one more experiment -- for the only time in the TKO run, I moved a knocked-out body a long distance. I wanted to see if Karras would discover a body. I picked up one of the guards from the furnace room and dropped them right in front of Karras's window. While I know that Garrett can be spotted from there, the body of one of his servants didn't seem to have any effect on him. So either it wasn't visible enough or he simply can't discover bodies.
That does it for Thief 2. As I've said, I think that TKO isn't very exciting in the last few missions of this game. I hardly think it's a flaw of the game, though, given just how varied a playstyle it actually does allow for. As for the game as a whole? While some of the additions (helmeted guards, too many bots) can make it technically impossible to get a perfect finish, I found that doing a knockout run was often still quite enjoyable. The late-middle section of missions were among my favorites. Even though there are some clear low spots for TKO in Thief 2, it's not all that hard to skip those missions and only play the good ones, and those good ones are some of the best.