Psych0sis on 6/4/2020 at 02:15
Ticky, thank you for the kind words, very happy you enjoyed the mission!
And as for what's in the spoilers... I agree! It is a bit stupid, no one would realistically do this lol. However I ultimately decided to go ahead with it anyway, and here's why.
Main reason - I just don't think it's that big of a deal, if one at all. There are a lot of immersion breaking things in thief if you look hard enough. Why is this guy sleeping on his bed in all his clothes AND shoes? Why are some of the buildings a bit architecturally impossible? (the R&R law offices bridge room, for example!). Also, this point of it being too cold for windows to be open could be applied to pretty much EVERY city fm (or even most fms, honestly) set at night that use a wind ambient, which is almost all of them. Windy nights are very, very cold! Hell, some of the OMs even just have HOLES in the wall, imagine those bedrooms in the winter, oh my! But in all seriousness, just keep in mind that Thief, like many forms of entertainment, relies on the suspension of disbelief. If you think too hard on everything, then it all falls apart.
Secondly - For gameplay reasons, I believed this to be the most reasonable option to choose from. I could have used secret doors with windows textures, sure, but due to how they look WITHOUT transparency (i.e no noticeable difference unless you walk up and try to frob them), this made me not want to make people think like they may be missing some frobbable windows around the map. I would feel pretty bad wasting the time of my players like that. Open windows are easy to notice, and I think is a necessary evil for this purpose. Adding transparency to them, perhaps? Sure, but I still think it's a bit annoying, and a bit unnatural to me (situations like "why is this window clear to see through, but this one isn't?" Gee, talk about immersion ruining!). Also, this ultimately locks me into only making my window openings 4x8, due to the way the texture resolutions are, which would be really samey and would require me to change A LOT of the mission to accommodate. Not good. There's probably a way to make it fit for, say, the 4x6 or 3x7 window openings I used, but I wouldn't know how to do that, especially so stock. And have you seen how the sides of these secret doors look when they have textures applied to them? That's the worst!
Lastly - Perhaps there is a reason for them being open? Maybe a certain smell was unbearable, or perhaps the one nobleman got a little too drunk, and needed a window open for a bit, and then passed out! Did you notice some of the wine bottles nearby the sleeping bodies? Just use a bit of imagination :P !
Thank you very much for this thought provoking discussion! I love hearing opinions like these and using them as an excuse to discuss game design. And again, thank you for the kind words.
ticky on 6/4/2020 at 16:18
Quote Posted by Psych0sis
Ticky, thank you for the kind words, very happy you enjoyed the mission!
And as for what's in the spoilers...
I agree! It is a bit stupid, no one would realistically do this lol. However I ultimately decided to go ahead with it anyway, and here's why.
Main reason - I just don't think it's that big of a deal, if one at all. There are a lot of immersion breaking things in thief if you look hard enough. Why is this guy sleeping on his bed in all his clothes AND shoes? Why are some of the buildings a bit architecturally impossible? (the R&R law offices bridge room, for example!). Also, this point of it being too cold for windows to be open could be applied to pretty much EVERY city fm (or even most fms, honestly) set at night that use a wind ambient, which is almost all of them. Windy nights are very, very cold! Hell, some of the OMs even just have HOLES in the wall, imagine those bedrooms in the winter, oh my! But in all seriousness, just keep in mind that Thief, like many forms of entertainment, relies on the suspension of disbelief. If you think too hard on everything, then it all falls apart.
Secondly - For gameplay reasons, I believed this to be the most reasonable option to choose from. I could have used secret doors with windows textures, sure, but due to how they look WITHOUT transparency (i.e no noticeable difference unless you walk up and try to frob them), this made me not want to make people think like they may be missing some frobbable windows around the map. I would feel pretty bad wasting the time of my players like that. Open windows are easy to notice, and I think is a necessary evil for this purpose. Adding transparency to them, perhaps? Sure, but I still think it's a bit annoying, and a bit unnatural to me (situations like "why is this window clear to see through, but this one isn't?" Gee, talk about immersion ruining!). Also, this ultimately locks me into only making my window openings 4x8, due to the way the texture resolutions are, which would be really samey and would require me to change A LOT of the mission to accommodate. Not good. There's probably a way to make it fit for, say, the 4x6 or 3x7 window openings I used, but I wouldn't know how to do that, especially so stock. And have you seen how the sides of these secret doors look when they have textures applied to them? That's the worst!
Lastly - Perhaps there is a reason for them being open? Maybe a certain smell was unbearable, or perhaps the one nobleman got a little too drunk, and needed a window open for a bit, and then passed out! Did you notice some of the wine bottles nearby the sleeping bodies? Just use a bit of imagination :P !Thank you very much for this thought provoking discussion! I love hearing opinions like these and using them as an excuse to discuss game design. And again, thank you for the kind words.
Thank you! It was really nice to read that, and, it also totally makes sense to me. I mean it. :) Now I see the design decisions with a certainly different eye.
Varen on 6/4/2020 at 17:44
39xx loot collected and 4 trinkets stolen. Good map, not very challenging but pleasant for sure. :)
Yandros on 6/4/2020 at 17:44
This mission has been updated to v1.1 to add support for French translations (it contains no bug fixes).
irg on 6/4/2020 at 20:24
i really liked this one. everything was well connected and overall not too spaced out to the point of exhaustion. definitely a big step up over your last entrant. i'd really love to see more from you!
TafferCat on 8/4/2020 at 23:11
Quote Posted by pukey brunster
I love missions like this that feel warm and welcoming to the player, and remind us to just to have fun. The small, snowy city was cozy, lively and fun to explore, with good humor & references throughout.
Very nice work! You captured that classic Thief FM feel, while also giving it fresh style.
this is exactly how i felt, but the girl with the awesome name expressed it much better than i could!! i really enjoyed this mission... it was somehow low-stress and comfy and classic...
also, Psych0sis!! wow you grew a ton from your dark project anniversary contest entry!! i can't wait to see more missions from you!
john9818a on 12/4/2020 at 00:09
Quote Posted by DarkMax
Finally some good news.
That was good news? :confused:
klatremus on 12/4/2020 at 07:11
This was a pretty decent romp, Psych0sis. A solid 7/10. The cathedral is the highlight for sure, with it's somewhat confusing, yet interesting layout. The rest of the city was quite nicely made, though I do miss some clear landmarks to navigate by. Most of the streets and buildings were very similar, and pretty much all of the entrances that weren't doors were open windows via pipes or wooden planters. I didn't play your entry for the TDP contest, so I can't comment on improvements. Very nice briefing and conversations though. Impressive!
I think I missed a trinket somewhere, I only found 3 in the cathedral (chisel, book and war hammer), then 2 others elsewhere in the city. Where is the 6th one? I ended with 4992 out of 5684. Do you mind if I uploaded and shared the loot list? Thought I'd check first.
Great work! :thumb:
Psych0sis on 12/4/2020 at 07:24
Go for it :thumb:
2 things to note: First you'll find the last trinket in a secret area, check out the room next to the library with the shrine. Then, Unfortunately I made a mistake and made a 10 loot plate unfrobbable, so do not fret if you end 10 loot short of 100%!
klatremus on 12/4/2020 at 16:07
Found it, and the
3 pieces of loot in there! Current loot list is (
http://www.klatremus.org/TMA20AC/TMA20AC_TroublingTransitions_L.htm) HERE. I feel like I missed a whole building somewhere. Like I said earlier, since many of the buildings look the same, its tough to realize which ones I haven't been to. Several times I was sure I found a new one, only to realize I had been there several times.