A.Stahl on 10/7/2020 at 12:04
Quote Posted by FireMage
how can you call a book and a key placed on a chair in the middle of a room
hidden?
You see, I'm not an idiot. But I wasn't able to find that book or key. I was able to finish the mission, so I haven't problems with finding things. But still, no book or key. Maybe it was a bug or something? How can I know?
Squadarofl on 10/7/2020 at 12:16
Thus spoke the GRUMPIEST™ thief fan :rolleyes:
If you finished the mission, you found the book and the key. Simple as.
nicked on 10/7/2020 at 12:20
Oh man, a lot of great comments on this mission. I may have to give it another chance. I didn't vote on this one because I gave up on it, finding it overwhelmingly large and having no idea where to go next.
A.Stahl on 10/7/2020 at 12:40
Quote Posted by Squadarofl
you found the book and the key. Simple as.
That simply means that MAYBE I speak about different book and/or key. Or maybe not. I really cannot be sure where was the thing which I think I haven't found. But I'm sure that there was a big closed door which I wasn't able to open and to get to the other side was forced to do a long bypassing journey.
Psych0sis on 10/7/2020 at 13:05
the GRUMPIEST™ thief fan making a mistake like that? Preposterous!
A.Stahl on 10/7/2020 at 13:17
Quote Posted by Psych0sis
the GRUMPIEST™ thief fan making a mistake like that? Preposterous!
I'm grumpiest thief fan here, not the snieksiest.
Supremcee on 16/7/2020 at 21:08
Hey Taffers,
any questions you would like to hear in our episode with "FireMage" about his outstanding contest mission "Builders Paradise?"
Also, since he's a "Dromed Wizard" (Marblemen quote) - are there any technical questions you guys like to ask as well?
Please tell us
Arrowgrab on 18/7/2020 at 20:53
Thanks!
Toulomne on 19/7/2020 at 18:22
I only finished this now, quite a bit after the contest. Like some others have mentioned, I also am not a huge fan of mechanist missions (at least before this), and when I encountered Kernel I interpreted his teleporting around as a bug (maybe some particle effects as he teleports around would've been nice), lost patience because of a very annoying death, and put the mission on hold out of frustration then didn't give it another go until recently. Kernel is still the biggest turnoff of this mission for me, I really didn't like the whole idea of a teleporting enemy, but fortunately he isn't as big of an issue as I thought before, and he isn't even particularly dangerous, while everything else was worth it.
The architecture and atmosphere are among the best of all Thief FMs I've played. While difficult to compare with other styles like mansions or undead-focused, this must surely be the most gorgeous mechanist \ factory mission ever made. There is so much beautiful detail put into the design of each room, you really created a believable Karras factory-fortress. It is far superior, interesting, and more fun to play than T2's original final level. I think the idea of an alternate ending was an undertaking of a huge scope and the authors delivered. While some small mini FM's are quick and fun to play, like a silly pop song, this FM attempts to be a grand opera. What is amazing is that the delivery matches the ambition. I think you do have to be in the right mood to play this level, it's not just another quick Thiefy jaunt as some other missions, but boy when you are in the right mood and frame of mind for something heavy and epic, it is amazing. Some specific things I loved:
- the design of the sewers for some reason was particularly great for me. I'm a sucker in Thief levels for that feeling you get when you are approaching something ominous, there aren't many enemies but you still feel the need to sneak around every corner knowing that inevitably something will go batshit crazy soon. Really nailed the atmosphere and immersion here
- the amazing feeling you get when you first come outside and see the rust gas blowing in the wind and everything just feels like the Builder's apocalypse; if anyone wasn't amazed by this, you have no Thiefy heart!
- the ominous music as you are entering the first large areas of the Builder's Paradise, I cannot think of a single better musical moment in Thief, FM or original...just really creates that feeling of how epic this undertaking is and how much is at stake here. Couldn't have made this feel more like T2's real ending...
- the music in the church...was this from 2001: a Space Odyssey? Also perfect
- all the details of the machinery in the factory were so well done, so much fun stuff to look at and admire your creativity; the original T2's final mission is kind of an embarrassment next to this (was never a fan), but hey I know they were working with less modern tools (no NewDark) and their final few missions were done in a hurry :tsktsk:
- the idea of a rebellious faction working against Karras after they had discovered his betrayal was clever and allowed for the necessary and relevant writing tidbits. I also symbolically like the idea that Karras wasn't able to completely enslave the humans who followed him, and thanks to them his plans were foiled (maybe Garrett wouldn't have succeeded in this mission without them??)
- all, err excepting Kernel that is, the new enemies were nicely done.
- loved the secret locations, I actually had a lot of fun discovering all the secrets that needed roping to in the factory and what not. Managed 7/9 secrets on my first play-through (ok kinda 2nd, but only got as far as Kernel 1st time around). More than I usually find : )
- amazing quality of voice acting for an FM; ok not quite as good as the real game, but short of getting the original voice actors, it was really well done, this is not easy.
It was quite difficult to figure out all the places to go...seemed like I did a better job finding the secrets than figuring out where I was meant to go for the main objectives at times, lol. I managed to do most things on my own with careful exploration and keeping notes of the important info in the readables, but I did get stuck eventually and had to consult the forums...I missed Irina's journal on the chair in the security room and I kind of knew I had missed something obvious but didn't want to spend hours going over every place again. I also didn't realize that the Extraction Manager's Key opens the chest with the crystal for a long time, that was dumb of me since the info is right there in a readable but I didn't put 2+2 together. Other than that, managed ok, also needed to consult the forums for the Vine and the "grinder" for the Stone parts of the optional objective (wasn't particularly trying to do that, but I found the other ones incidentally \ through exploration).
I'll give this a 4.95/5 (small subtraction for Kernel and for the somewhat convoluted and circuitous route to accomplish all objectives, though it was mostly fun). Sorry I didn't get to replay this in time to rate it for the contest, in my eyes it deserves to share 1st\nd places with Feast of Pilgrims :D
I spent a lot of time running around the factory with robots behind me, glad you included all those speed potions ;)
Ok so questions I have:
- what's with the spaceship \ airplane that you can see fly through the window just as you are entering the Builder's Paradise? Didn't find any readable mentioning this later :P
- was that music in the church from 2001: a space odyssey?
- what is the music around the entrance \ first large halls of the Builder's Paradise?
- how the heck do you open the door that's in the basement, very close to the elevator doors (the super tall elevator that takes you outside)? There is a flashbomb and some flares on a carpenter's bench that you can see through the door grate, but never figured out how to open it (guessing it's another secret) Edit: oh never mind, just saw the post right before mine for this last one lol, I always knew there must be something in that room with the flowing water, but never figured it out... : )
Iceblade on 29/7/2020 at 05:38
Well, I'm stuck. After going up the Throne elevator and doing some stuff, I used a slow fall to get back down as I was not finding a regular route down.
Now I am trying to get back up, but there are no doors that I can access in order to get back up and I see no means of calling the Throne elevator.
I also cannot get the map to open up in Dromed to get past this issue either. Was there a key in the camera control room that I missed? Is there no way to get back to the upper levels or call the elevator? I'm even more stuck now as I used my Invis potion to get past the turrets.