marbleman on 15/4/2020 at 07:47
Regarding the story, personally, I'm not just fine with it; I absolutely adore the way the story is told here.
If you've finished the mission and thought that the plot felt like a series of unrelated events or that some things felt random, you're not entirely wrong.
The two main events occurring in the mission are Garrett escaping an ambush and then finding himself a new opportunity to steal something, a golden egg. These two events are not really connected, so the mission basically has two acts that happen in the same place.
"But what about that weird underground city?" you might ask. Well, this is what this mission does so expertly. It subverts expectations by throwing in this intermission between two main, rather mundane events (as far as Garrett's routine goes, anyway). The sanctuary is the most intriguing area in the mission, yet there are no objectives related to it, and once again, I love this.
How often would you find something odd in a mission and have an objective like "Oh no, this evil wizard is up to something! Stop him" pop up? But not here. For Garrett, this place is a means an end, just another point on the way to his real destination. He doesn't give a damn about this place, which is entirely in his character.
But what is this place exactly? Well, the authors have clearly thought through what this place is and how it came about but only left a few clues, which may or may not explain that. Once again, this was a right move as the sanctuary is not a part of the main storyline, so it doesn't need neither extensive exposition nor any story development happening in it.
This mission has the most unique premise I've seen in any FM, and it's perfectly brought to life.
lpowell on 15/4/2020 at 08:26
That's a really great perspective, marbleman.
Certainly I'll be thinking about this mission for a while.
nicked on 15/4/2020 at 17:06
Agreed marbleman - I (eventually) loved the minimal storyline and environmental cues, and the atmosphere is top-notch.
It's just let down by the unbalanced, frustrating gameplay. It's just not very fun. Your enjoyment of the mission will entirely depend on whether you are someone that can overlook annoying gameplay and just soak in the amazing atmosphere, or find that the atmosphere is ruined by the constant frustration of the moment-to-moment gameplay.
For me, it *just* nudged into the former category, but I'm not sure I could recommend it without some heavy caveats.
marbleman on 15/4/2020 at 18:56
I didn't find gameplay frustrating either. On the contrary, as I ghoster, I was happy with the many challenges this mission presented. The starting area is no different from how I usually play, so I'm obviously biased there, and I've ghosted much worse scenarios. The only gameplay annoyances I can think of are mantling issues in a few places.
I also don't think there is anything transcedental about this mission's gameplay either since it relies exclusively on gameplay loops found in OMs: exploring the spaces and evading guards. There are no unique gameplay quirks here, and even structurally, the mission doesn't invent the wheel with the way it progresses. It's just that there has never been a mission of this type so well-made and polished as this one.
Psych0sis on 15/4/2020 at 20:46
Honestly once you get to the sewers the mission isn't even hard anymore, and that's like 15% of the way into the mission. Yes, this includes the revisit to the fake city
Hjarpe on 17/4/2020 at 20:19
Quote Posted by marbleman
Regarding the story, personally, I'm not just
fine with it; I absolutely
adore the way the story is told here.
If you've finished the mission and thought that the plot felt like a series of unrelated events or that some things felt random, you're not
entirely wrong.
The two main events occurring in the mission are Garrett escaping an ambush and then finding himself a new opportunity to steal something, a golden egg. These two events are not really connected, so the mission basically has two acts that happen in the same place.
"But what about that weird underground city?" you might ask. Well, this is what this mission does so expertly. It subverts expectations by throwing in this intermission between two main, rather mundane events (as far as Garrett's routine goes, anyway). The sanctuary is the most intriguing area in the mission, yet there are no objectives related to it, and once again, I love this.
How often would you find something odd in a mission and have an objective like "Oh no, this evil wizard is up to something! Stop him" pop up? But not here. For Garrett, this place is a means an end, just another point on the way to his real destination. He doesn't give a damn about this place, which is entirely in his character.
But what is this place exactly? Well, the authors have clearly thought through what this place is and how it came about but only left a few clues, which may or may not explain that. Once again, this was a right move as the sanctuary is not a part of the main storyline, so it doesn't need neither extensive exposition nor any story development happening in it.This mission has the most unique premise I've seen in any FM, and it's perfectly brought to life.
Good points! I agree about the strengths of the story - at least in theory.
Like many here it seems, I didn't like the gameplay and overall structure much. In the early parts, there were some cramped spaces where I got physically stuck, and some very gnarly platforming where I had to save scum a lot. And when I reached a certain point, I got real worried that I had missed the lockpicks and would have to go back. Some more hints that I was at least going in the right direction would have helped. Getting
the loot objectives after returning to the streets felt like a big distraction. In hindsight it made more sense, but for a first playthrough it was a pretty big hurdle.
Aesthetically, however - holy hell, this mission was beyond the beyond! I'm hard pressed to think of a more atmospheric piece of level design. The sheer amount of creativity and invention going on here - even ignoring the fact that it was all vanilla assets - was quite breathtaking.
Every few steps, it seemed, I would stop to take in some detail - beautiful, horrifying, funny, bizarre - or all at once. I too was especially creeped out by
the room with the cradle and the hand poking through the wall. I'm a jaded horror fan, but that made my skin crawl. "The Sword and The Cradle on a bad acid trip" is how I would describe the atmosphere of this mission.
Also, the
"papuros of SMABAN" was an
inspired piece of writing, to the point where I wonder what the authors' influences are (literary, chemical, or otherwise :cheeky:).
klatremus on 17/4/2020 at 21:54
Quote Posted by Psych0sis
Honestly once you get to the sewers the mission isn't even hard anymore, and that's like 15% of the way into the mission.
Yes, this includes the revisit to the fake cityIf wanting all the loot and ghosting, the sewer part after you get
the lockpicks before the sanctuary is
very hard. But doable.
Ravenus1 on 18/4/2020 at 06:13
the room with the cradle and the hand poking through the wall.
I was way too close to that wall when entering, and It made me shriek. The best part no silly setup with music so I wasn't prepared for it.
wycha on 18/4/2020 at 08:33
I love this mission. It is so surreal, fairy-tale like, a Garret's nightmare. Eclectic with architecture, bizarre with writing. Personally I like the flow of it with beginning where Garrett is in the worst situation, but slowly taking it to his advantage. Digging through areas that are meshed together with space and time. . I read it as Garrett dream, or one of tales about him. Changed through mouths and time so it's not anymore a gossip, but a legend, or ballad.
Personally I am okay with lack of plot, the situation Garret is in, the fight or flight scenario is immersive enough, and through whole context of Garret and Thief, player doesn't need to know details why the thugs wants to kill him. I wish though, the golden egg would be optional, so only player's determination and curiosity is why they are going deeper into the areas.
Here I just ramble about map design from point how it looks like, not how it plays like. It may contain minor spoiler:
In general I love how the areas are meshed and connected together. The buildings are taken by newer generations and changed the purpose. Like the Hammerite grave in a "modern" sewer area. Or how in marketplace the fortification stone tower 12th century like stand next to a classical 18th century mansion. I love that, it is greatly shows, how The City evolves, changes, and how old it is suggested to be. Giving opportunity, how much more is hidden and meshed in other areas of The City, but it is ignored in citizens eyes. The amount of intricate, clutter details is amazing and brings life and personality to spaces, and people who live there. I can imagine the pain but dedication to preparing everything in dromed.
Due to fact there are areas, that reminds me theater backstage, gives me interpretation the whole mission is bizarre stage-play. I am also glad the mission took place in the daylight and the darkness is exaggerated, which expands colors, and richness of them. Very, very medieval palette, with rich saturated hues and gold, and with the odd of places, and characters I can sniff the inspiration with book illuminations from the middle age. Also thank you for the work with bringing small details to the character models to enrich them, giving thugs different weapons, or bringing to the guard smoking pipe, or giving some character hats. It gives them personality, and makes them more human, without naming their names when picking them up.
From the gameplay point. Without doubt it is feel like a roller-coaster ride.[SPOILER]with going back to some areas it is a double ride. Of course it is changed with different enemies, and destinations where the player should go, but I feel like it removes a bit of charm, while for example I like how sewer area was treated, that it is revisited only in one place. I am glad the hidden "theatre"-city with monsters was revisited, same with Marketmaster? mansion. But the city streets, I feel meh, to go back to it at the third time, and I rushed to get the egg and run to the end-game spot. Maybe I was tired, but I noticed a crowd of people next to the jail? place, and the mechanists close to the public toilet, but I really have no strength to check them if there is extra info about the two situations besides, making the streets still alive.[/SPOILER]
What I can call as flaws, are:
-Writing in letters and such. It was very overwhelming for me. I read the words, but wasn't able to read the sentence, or get the general message from the text. I couldn't able to focus on the paragraphs, so in the end the texts were for me a gibber, that only spiced up the surrealism, psychedelia the whole mission have. [SPOILER]I am glad, they don't include clues or mission details, otherwise I would be doomed with migraine.[/SPOILER]
-Also don't know, I have mixed feelings, if the amount of motifs (as for example, the cannibals/zombies from the sewers) doesn't overwhelm the mission in general, making it as some mash up, of everything author thought of. I guess the border between taste, and tasteless is very thin by width and opacity.
klatremus on 20/4/2020 at 04:55
Question: What exactly triggers the door to the basement with the torturers on Chitterling Court to open? I'm almost done ghosting the mission, but that basement isn't open, so I can't get the purse on the guy down there.