fett on 27/5/2009 at 17:06
Quote Posted by Stitch
Also, this is about more than just sex offender rights. For me, personally, it's about dialing back the grotesque hysteria in this thread.
Yeah, but did you read the part where I said "we always picture the worst case scenario"? I swear, every time some poor kid's picture gets flashed across the TV for an Amber Alert, I see my own kid's faces. Seriously, I think becoming a parent transforms you into a suspicious, paranoid motherfucker. Or it could be my meds and this lead paint I keep mixing into my Baileys. :confused:
Queue on 27/5/2009 at 17:54
The lead paint adds body.
Starrfall on 27/5/2009 at 18:41
Quote Posted by snowcap21
Starrfall, I think I have an idea what you're critizising in my post, but I really had the hope to add something to the debate.
If it helps I think your distinction between "pedophiles" and "child molesters" is a good one, particularly if we're talking prevention of the crime and treatment of offenders.
Singing Dancing Moose on 27/5/2009 at 20:20
This is why I don't like posting on forums. Eventually the lure of coherent opinion grows too great and I have to break out the punctuation and full stops.
Vigil has already made many of the points I would have brought up. I would like to add that the criticisms in our trolling are serious even if we aren't. The hypothetical situation Tocky brought up in which you can kill a man or save a child doesn't have a good solution. Trying to weigh the costs in suffering is reasonable, but pretending that one option constitutes "saving" the child from trauma is naive.
The broader point is that situation does not define the debate. Cases of a sudden binary choice between the safety of a child and the death of another person are exceedingly rare.
As I alluded to in my trolling, a pedophile is someone's child. He didn't just pop out of a pool of ooze; he is a real person with a real capacity to suffer. That doesn't give him carte blanche to abuse any more than Tocky's anger gives him carte blanche to kill, but if compassion enters into your moral code, it's not sufficient to say that pedophiles deserve anything that happens to them. This disregard for human suffering may be selectively understandable but is never morally defensible. It is the same disregard required for a pedophile to inflict his urges upon someone.
It's been discussed earlier, but it stands to be reitirated that there are extremely low incentives for a pedophile warning others about his pathology or seeking psychological help. I think fett and Tocky have told this story for us. Being revealed as a pedophile is a social death sentence. Some might say that a lifetime of secrets and ostracization are a fitting punishment, but it certainly isn't a social good. Alcoholics and narcotics addicts are advised to reveal their illness to those around them, because it is nigh impossible to overcome such problems in isolation. The anger and fear which a pedophile faces denies him the chance for this social support. He wallows alone in his own illness. How could he be expected to do otherwise?
I do believe that a change social perception would make reform more likely and children safer, but that's not the only issue. Regardless of what they've done, criminals are human beings.
thefonz on 27/5/2009 at 20:22
The Catholic Church also "stole" Nazi treasure apparently.
Add that to the list...
Tocky on 27/5/2009 at 22:20
Quote Posted by Kolya
In the posts before, all it took to make people feel good about themselves was to describe how they would torture and kill any offender. This is what caused a few people including me to defend their human rights.
Apparently you don't understand what a good old fashioned ass stomping is. I forget sometimes the terms I use don't translate to other countries. It is a fist fight. It doesn't include wire pliers and electrical cord. It is something men used to do quite a bit to settle differences. Either side is capable of winning and that is the beauty. That is why it is so satisfying when it is you. I hope this clears things up for you.
Oh and don't be so quick to dismiss NAMBLA as a possible defensable position against the evil Tocky horde. It is exactly the sort of place he might think of storming with guns blazing and the stars and bars in his teeth. But when you do, if you are a young boy, keep one eye behind you. North American Man Boy Love Association, you know.
And thanks Vigil and SDM. Cogent arguments both. I do apologize. You can leave your kids with me anytime. Just don't leave your pedos. Or get any other combination mixed up. I still feel the weight of my life and that of a molester is very light compared to that of a child but you have made your points.
Kolya on 28/5/2009 at 04:02
cocky
37637598 on 28/5/2009 at 08:51
Quote Posted by thefonz
The Catholic Church also "stole" Nazi treasure apparently.
Add that to the list...
Jew. Gold.
just saying...
SubJeff on 28/5/2009 at 10:16
Yeah, they don't deserve it those bastards.
Muzman on 31/5/2009 at 05:18
Here's something to bring a bit of unity to this whole thing.
(
http://www.atheistmedia.com/2009/05/bill-donohue-denies-catholic-church.html)
Bill Donhue covers Catholics in glory once again
(My favourite bit is where his US TV tactic of shouting down the opposition for the full 3 minutes so they can't get a word in gets spanked by the moderator early on)
