Zaphod on 4/6/2002 at 15:32
I pretty much agree with Tonamel. The word "gay" used as derision has nothing to do with it's original meaning of "happy." It's along the same lines as people saying they were "Jewed out of something," which is a phrase that unfortunately a lot of people still use.
Zily, you say that all the gays you know want to be straight. I haven't met a single gay man or woman yet that wishes they were straight. What they will say is that they occasionally envy straight people, because they don't have the same prejudices against them. Also, you said that there's no poverty in America. OMG LOL! That was a good one! Oh, I had a good chuckle at that.
Tuco: man, your comments are just unacceptable. I can't think of another word for it. I didn't get a chance to see what the Admins removed, but given what they left in, I can't even imagine. You seem like a semi-decent guy in all the other threads. Grow up.
Avenger, I don't know if you should "pick your battles better" or not. On the one hand, some guy posting something in a messageboard specifically geared to one computer game might not be the best place to try and re-enact Stonewall.
That said, I can understand your anger. Someone above said that they were surprised you haven't become desensatized to it by now. I don't know if I agree with that attitude. I don't know that it's someone's place to become desensatized to insults against them. To take this line of reasoning to it's illogical conclusion, I've never heard someone tell a black person that they might want to consider becoming desensitized to the word "n*gger." And, your objection to the word "gay" certainly did bring to the surface a lot of pretty unsavory thoughts and opinions around here that might not otherwise have been seen.
Clearly I'm babbling now. I... I have no point (as usual).
The fact that this thread hasn't been closed yet really surprises me. Or at least moved to CommChat (where it now belongs).
Tuco on 4/6/2002 at 16:50
I'm not semi-decent =\
I just don't take avenger seriously. He has no concept on anything, and he's probably lieing about being some seasoned veteran of gaydom, enduring such harsh punishment as being burned at the stake, or even things like witnessed at these forums, the *gasp* calling something gay... if you think he does know what he's talking about, read Tonamels post =)
Oh, and my post Mr. Admin edited was just a more colorful version of, "Avenger likes men."
I meet lots of these people daily... half of them aren't gay, just trying to stir up trouble by playing all sorts of racism cards...
Oh, and I found his second language funny...
"that killed 6 million yewish people becan with hateful, tuntingwords once. "
zily on 4/6/2002 at 22:51
zaphod, this is what I said
Quote:
keep in mind that in America, people are not poverty stricken. The only reason that the whole concentration camp thing happened was because Germany was in such a bad state.
If you would have listened, you might have noticed I am comparing America to post WW1 Germany. 2 completely different states of society. Also, you fail to reach the point of the subject simply by saying that "america has poverty."
I never said that america doesn't have poverty. Merely that its not poverty stricken. Please, don't attack arguements without reading ahead and figuring out what I'm really trying to say.
Any gay who isn't faking it (made gay by genetics) will probably not lie it. For example, there is a gay guy on my mom's soap opera discussion group, who wants to blah blah blah. I'm tired of this. I can't bring up any evidence, and it seems that you're agreeing with me on half the stuff anyways, so i'll just do something else lol.
ALso, if anyone noticed, I never used a direct attack when I was debating. I never made fun of gays or made fun Of avenger for being gay. Avenger, however, was mostly condenscinding.(sp?) Saying that I haven't seen the world, or that essentially I have to get beaten up by a gang to understand it.
Avenger, you're a little quick to get defensive. None of us hate you (except once again, maybe Tuco, but he hates everyone...), and in no way did we intend to offend you by saying the game is gay. I'm suprised that after being rediculed so long, that you are still offended by something like this.
Zaphod on 5/6/2002 at 00:48
Quote:
Originally posted by zily Any gay who isn't faking it (made gay by genetics) will probably not lie it. For example, there is a gay guy on my mom's soap opera discussion group, who wants to blah blah blah. I'm tired of this. You're right on the poverty thing. I just read it too fast. I'm not sure what your definition of "poverty-stricken" is, and I think that large parts of this country come close, but I will certainly agree that we aren't nearly in the same place that pre-WW2 Germany was, when they were literally carting marks around in wheelbarrows because their currency had become so devalued.
But, as for the above quote, I can't say anything except "you're wrong. Believe me." I can offer you no proof, no statistics, except these: fully 1/2 of my male friends are gay. Aside from prejudice and being the punceline to a lot of jokes, they freaking love it. My bet is (and this was said somewhere else) that the people you're referring to are transgenders. These make up a very small percentage of gay people, but they're the most shocking, and so they're the ones that understandably stick in our minds the most.
I'd say that about 90% of gay people are as thrilled with being gay as you are with (and I'm making an assumption here) being straight.
Whatever. I'm done with this.
Oh, and Tuco? That pic =
Inline Image:
http://www.geocities.com/thwarkisallama/hat.txtTuco on 5/6/2002 at 02:49
=D
Half your(male) friends are gay? :wot: I'm not a homophobic but I couldn't do that...
:laff:
Zaphod on 5/6/2002 at 03:45
I've been working in the theatre community for about 10 years. The math just works out that way in that particular sub-culture :) And any homophobia you might have gets drummed out of you pretty quick if you want to have any friends in the business.
The other plus is there's always a LOT more straight women who can't meet someone in their profession. Much less competition. Ratios at wrap parties and such. It's just one of the many perks. :thumb:
Tuco on 5/6/2002 at 05:37
Quote:
I've been working in the theatre community for about 10 years.
read that and laughed =D
Tarataru on 5/6/2002 at 23:01
As was stated earlier he wasnt talking about gay people in general he was just stating that the game is very stupid and screwed up . But i dont think so dont get me wrong though i dont think it was right for him to use it in such terms but ut was natural when a person gets frustuated so dont take it so personally :angel: and Dont get me wrong Elder scrolls 3:Morrowind players i didnt mean any thing offensively about saying the game was stupid and screwed up just that that it how it was being expressed. i cant say anything about it though i dont have the game yet.
Avenger72 on 7/6/2002 at 01:25
Well, first I'm truly sorry about my bad English, as it is not my native language. Many expression are from my native (German) language, and I just did not always know how to say it in English, but translate it word by word. (So I have to add, that it's somewhat cheap to criticise it... What about your German??)
Anyway, I'm somewhat astonished to see this thread still alive. (A bit, at least...) And the ongoing responses give me some hope. As long as there is discourse about things, there is hope, generally speaking.
Originally I didn't want to post any more things here, but - some may say I would better have kept this promise - I did not want you to have some impressions about me, after some of you put time and effort to answer and state your opinions.
First: I never assumed that any person here really hates gays. This, I just do not know, as it is just an anonymous forum in the net. I never met you... But I HAVE seen the rising popularity of the usage of the word "gay" in a negative meaning, which is just "not nice" and surely doesn't fit to civil behaviour. Any Jew or Black has the right to demand the stop of words like n*gger or Jewish as another word for bad.
Second: 90% of all who use this words (gay, Jewish) in such a negative connotation are neither racists nor evil, but their mindlessness brings a great danger of loosing sensibility. I don't see another Holocaust coming any soon, whether here (Europe), nor in US. But such lack of sincerity and responsibility can be the beginning to new dark chapters in history in the long run, which have to be stopped in time, when it's still small.
Third: Just don't judge gays. We are diverse and different like all people. Some gays are nice others are not, some are clever, other are foolish. There is no need for judgement, nor do you have the right to do so. We all live better in a world, where none is judged on what he loves and likes or not. There comes no harm from being different, so just be fair und "let live".
Fourth: Gee!! *rollingmyeyes* Of course I WAS NEVER BURNT! But all of you know quite well, that gay (and other deviant people) where burnt during the last eras of human history. And as I am a "part of gay history" (even a very small one), I fell with them in the same way you may with other Americans or whatever. It is hard in our days or relative safety and in your more or less safe home and cities to think that is will always be so. But all who believe in tolerance, peace and justice must always be vigilant. So many civilisation believed themselves invincible and thought their golden era would last forever, but ended in war and destruction just because of that laziness to fight for that ideals. Such dark time are not that impossible as some may think. I had my share of violence, which just should show you that a world of words instead of violence is one we all should fight for, whether you are gay, straight or whatever! If I showed you the most extreme dangers that a mislead society might turn to, then to make you aware what you risk with mindlessness and laziness.
Finally: Yes, I AM an old gay-movement veteran, and perhaps I have fought so many times that I just can't get used to the idea of peace. But I don't believe in peace. I fear that this time of relative tolerance is just a short break; and I interpret the rising use of words that were not used in that way for quite a time before as a signal that the break will all to soon be over. Don't you see that radical groups and movements have already begun to mobilize their followers? I see all too many signs that the liberty of lifestyles and freedom of words is in greater danger every passing month. And if you think that is foolish, ask yourself if you would have believed it possible to happen in Yew York to crash the WTC, as it happened just at 10.Sept.??
And one more thing: I know it's cool (Hi Tuco!) to talk aggressive, and you many feel that such way of talking is normal. Perhaps you grew up in an environment, where such "language" was normal; I don't know. But we all would profit of politeness. You may find your words funny, but words can be as hard as weapons. Who knows what killer comes next, just because some people had one funny remark too much? No, don't look at me! But every person should be aware of the responsibility for his word and actions. What you say lightly, can cause a disaster on another time. In the end, you'll not help yourself in any way, if you keep such a language.
Oh, and last but not least: It's very strange, that one of the most progressive medium like computer games use to be so conservative. TV, Movie and Literature long show gays as a normal part of a world. The occurrence of gays in simulated societies in nearly zero. I don't need that in every game, but the complete non-existence is somewhat as if you would play games, and all characters where gay or lesbian. (Or all where black...) It would certainly seem to you as dissatisfying. OK - In many games it doesn't matter. But in a simulated city, you'd expect at least some people not mainstream-normals, and not only in matters of being gay, but other things to. I'm just sick of only having the options of straight relationships in games. Why is the game-scene so very conservative?
that’s all... never stop thinking. Look at life with you own eyes.
