Avenger72 on 4/6/2002 at 00:52
Dear zilly,
yes Avenger - I - am gay. And I have seen and had much persecution: verbally, socially (not getting jobs because of that) and phyiscally. As I never ran away and defend as good as I good, it has counted in my 31 years lasting life a bit.
Yes, gay means "happy" as well. But in the net to an increasing amout it is used similar to "bad", "boring", "failure" and such. If such use gets common there is less resistance against "rat-catching" racists - of which like none is here! In that way every virtuous person should fight against the use of words like "nigger" or any other discriminating use of word. Yes, gay people call themselves so, but not in such a meaning like "I hate that gay game" meaning the game is bad.
If kids use it, they do not know about homsexuality, but the know well that gay is something to taunt and hurt; it's used as a taunt to each other, and that must be prevented, not only with gay but for all minorities, be it yewish, black or whatever.
Truth is, I fear, that the stupid and midless will always remain. My home nation germany has see the results of mindlessness. It always begins with very small steps. Even the creation of KZ's that killed 6 million yewish people becan with hateful, tuntingwords once. I am certain to lose my fight against discrimination. In the end, some racist group will create a anti-gay virus (thanks to genetics) and your children will remember us as a part of history. But I'll not wait and be wiped out of mankind like cattle. Sorry, world is a dark place, and some lived too long in daddies and mommies save haven to know that.
A72
zily on 4/6/2002 at 01:40
well, if you're going to bring up examples, keep in mind that in America, people are not poverty stricken. The only reason that the whole concentration camp thing happened was because Germany was in such a bad state. Hitler gained power, then told everyone "Its the jews' fault you are all poor" so everyone turned against the jews. This kind of thing won't happen in america. Gay prosecution is actually getting better, regardless to what you have personally ecountered. More people are becoming gay (or just getting brave enough to come out). Already, about half my female friends at my school claim to have bi-sexual tendancies.
You also mention something like the anti-gay virus. This assumes that most people ENJOY being gay. Every gay person I have met wished he was straight. It would fix most of their problems, let them have a sociall deemed "normal" family, and fit in better. I am absolutely sure that you wish you could be straight.
However, if someone says "I'm gay and I'm proud" that doesn't mean they're necessarily happy to be gay. It simply means they have accepted that they are homosexual, and there is nothing that can be done to it. If you can't beat it, join it.
But like I mentioned, this stuff seems to get mor and more popular. "Hey, Its the 90's!"
Remember that phrase? That was basically accepted of "different stuff" happening. Now, we're in teh 00's and it doesn't seem to be changing much.
Talking about us children being locked away in Mommy's and Daddy's safe haven... I, like most people, know abou thte world. You don't have to experience it first hand to gain awareness. Music, radio, television, these are all windows to whatever is around. All the school shootings, terrorist activities. Everyone knows about this.
I am also a debater at school. I know how to look at something that has happened, and analyze to a point of understanding. I see where you're coming from if you dislike using "fag" as a derrogatory word, bbut its something that you're going to have to accept. It's nothing against gay people, so there is no need to defend if something is said like "this game is gay." It seems, in these last 30 years, you have become to defensive. Almost paranoid, always thinking that someone is trying to attack you. Its not you---
Its the crappy collision detection taht almost lost kenshin his character.
Just lighten' up some. Nobody (except maybe Tuco) hates you here. I'm suprised the mods haven't locked this thread yet.
SuperTech on 4/6/2002 at 01:54
Well this is really a moot debate because the last time I checked it is just as bad for any group to oppress freedom of speech in any form or fashion. Yes anyone does have the right to be offended by it but it still does not give the offended the right to dictate how that person should express themself. Of course it also means we have the right not to associate or respond to them also.
Everyone gets a little too sensitive about off the cuff remarks and a little education goes a lot further than threats of violence.
Tuco on 4/6/2002 at 01:56
Content unacceptable.
- Admin
Avenger72 on 4/6/2002 at 03:09
to zily:
No! No gay wants to be straight. People like you and others make them feel so! They don't want to be taunted and bashed and shunned. But that's something entirely different!
I - and all gays I know - want to be and stay being gay. Life is diversity, it's not made to fit in!! We're no BORG COLLECTIVE or COMMUSITS that have to fit in!! Am I a pair of shoes or what! I like not having a fimily, I see familiy as the origin of all misfortune, of conservatism and false moralism. In the sacred family, people learn to "fit in" istead of being happy in his or her own way. If I have sex in my room or kiss my boyfriend, why is there need to fit in, when that harm none? YOU demand fitting, but WE don NOT WANT TO! Accept that, that is all. It's love, something between to consenting adults, that none of others business. So why the demand to fit? Why this hate and prejudice? Gay people are just like all other, there are nice and gentle, evil and cruel, intelligent and stupid gays. We are like you, just we love the same gender. Thats all. There is no mystery or stereotype.
None would have the right to demand to blacks to get white. And for what? Why? It's different and does not harm you that there are blacks, gay, yews. Why not accept? And why not respect? I don't use you real life name as a taunt, either, as this would be disrespect. Just do the same.
TV is not real life. Work. 10 Years; thats something else like school.
YOU know about terrorists? Do you share the same fear on save TV chair then these murdered kids? NO! You know nothing from safe livining room. It hypothetical!
To say, it's 90ies is just a mask. Most straight still hate gays and find us convoluting. But the don't tell. They quote such sayings, but don't believe it. And in yokes and taunts such true emotions surface. Read Freud; the yoke is masked hate. He has proven it.
And one more thing: Do you held America unguilty for Bin Laden? I don't. Just take a look at your foreign actions, like pushing democracies away and setting dictators on chairs (Pinochet! Read a bit about Mr Kissinger!) You force others to follow your way of life, and wonder if these people hate you. As in small so at large. Is arrogance, but you'll learn. The hard way I fear.
"If you cant beat it..." None if US wants it to be "beaten"! That is what YOU have to learn. Why does being gay stir straight persons anger or mock? Why do you care! We have done nothing against you! We want to stay as we are, and be treated equal in job or life! Which obviously you don't!
If there would be neede any proof of prejudice, hate and misunderstanding you have the whole thing here in this thread. Quod erat demonstrandum.
No black wants to be white.
No yew wants to be christian.
No woman want to be man.
No gay wants to be straight.
GET THE MESSAGE!
I'll take my leave here. There is no learning here, as I see. I didn't expect, but I wanted to show, that the world not yet belongs to your greed, your arrogance and your egomania. After all what your kind did to ours: we're still here.
Resistance is NOT futile.
(Yeah, heteros/straights use to seem to me like Borg: a great, happy, all-the-same-useful reproduction collective. Spooky.)
Tuco on 4/6/2002 at 03:18
rofl, admins pwnz0rd my message =D
Avenger, if you like it up the ass, that's your business. But if you find yourself offended because someone called a game 'gay', then perhaps you should reconsider your security as a gay individual? If you are 'proud' of what you are, why the neccesity to get angry at some poor man who found morrowind now what he wanted? I have a few gay friends, and they aren't as quick to bitch as you are... chill out.
Sinister Handed on 4/6/2002 at 07:28
Maybe Kenshin just happened to get a gay version of the game. He did mention it "sucking goat dong". Perhaps this wasn't a metaphor.
Tonamel on 4/6/2002 at 09:38
Quote:
I'll take my leave here. There is no learning here, as I see. I didn't expect, but I wanted to show, that the world not yet belongs to your greed, your arrogance and your egomania. After all what your kind did to ours: we're still here.
Resistance is NOT futile.
(Yeah, heteros/straights use to seem to me like Borg: a great, happy, all-the-same-useful reproduction collective. Spooky.) Wow. Not only are you wrong about us not being able to learn, you're more prejudiced than anyone I've ever met! You're so blinded by the idea that YUO SI RITE that you can't tell the difference between the people that are making fun of you, and the people that are actually presenting a good argument against your points. Let's have a look...
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No! No gay wants to be straight. People like you and others make them feel so! They don't want to be taunted and bashed and shunned. But that's something entirely different!Well, right off the bat you're making assumtions and generalizations that you have no right to make. Simply because you have not personally met one does not mean that one cannot exist. And had you read, and thought about, what zily had said, you'd have realized that his friends said they didn't want to be gay because of the trouble it caused them socially, not because they were dissatisfied with their sexual orientation.
Quote:
I - and all gays I know - want to be and stay being gay. Life is diversity, it's not made to fit in!! We're no BORG COLLECTIVE or COMMUSITS that have to fit in!! Am I a pair of shoes or what! I like not having a fimily, I see familiy as the origin of all misfortune, of conservatism and false moralism. In the sacred family, people learn to "fit in" istead of being happy in his or her own way. If I have sex in my room or kiss my boyfriend, why is there need to fit in, when that harm none? YOU demand fitting, but WE don NOT WANT TO! Accept that, that is all. It's love, something between to consenting adults, that none of others business. So why the demand to fit? Why this hate and prejudice? Gay people are just like all other, there are nice and gentle, evil and cruel, intelligent and stupid gays. We are like you, just we love the same gender. Thats all. There is no mystery or stereotype.What can I say, other than this is a basic soapbox rant that will have no effect on the beliefs of anyone, because it's all unsupported opinion. I might also add that "Am I a pair of shoes, or what!" is not an English expression, so I have no clue what you're talking about there. And if you sincerely -like- being cut off from your family, then you have my sympathies, whether you want them or not.
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None would have the right to demand to blacks to get white. And for what? Why? It's different and does not harm you that there are blacks, gay, yews. Why not accept? And why not respect? I don't use you real life name as a taunt, either, as this would be disrespect. Just do the same.That's spelled "Jews," just so you know. And, in fact, some people -do- use those minorities as slang for 'bad'. Heck, my roommate this year will call anything he doesn't approve of "Jewish," much to my chagrin.
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TV is not real life. Work. 10 Years; thats something else like school.What? I know, and fully appreciate that English isn't your first language, but I can't even see what that has to do with this argument...
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YOU know about terrorists? Do you share the same fear on save TV chair then these murdered kids? NO! You know nothing from safe livining room. It hypothetical!.Ditto.
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To say, it's 90ies is just a mask. Most straight still hate gays and find us convoluting. But the don't tell. They quote such sayings, but don't believe it. And in yokes and taunts such true emotions surface. Read Freud; the yoke is masked hate. He has proven it.!.The phrase "It's the 90's!" is not a mask, and I'll tell you why. Because it's true. Never before has such an astonishing degree of personal freedom been established in society. You seem to think that we've not progressed at all in the past half century, and that we're still throwing minorities to the back of the bus on their way to the prison camp (or whatever deluded scenario you think would be best appropriate). You're gay? So what? I'm straight, and I bet you don't care, either.
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And one more thing: Do you held America unguilty for Bin Laden? I don't. Just take a look at your foreign actions, like pushing democracies away and setting dictators on chairs (Pinochet! Read a bit about Mr Kissinger!) You force others to follow your way of life, and wonder if these people hate you. As in small so at large. Is arrogance, but you'll learn. The hard way I fear.!.Ok, what in the world prompted you to say this?! Stay on topic, or your arguments will never hold up! It's as if you're trying to tell me that because someone called a game gay, Islamic radicals are blowing up my nation! Trust me, they're pretty much unconnected. In fact, part of the reason they hate us is BECAUSE we're so openly tolerant with minorities, so any point you were trying to make is Dead On Arrival. (And everyone knows Bin Laden was trained by our CIA, so it's not like we can escape all responsibility. However, his power comes from the fact that he inherited millions. That had nothing to do with us.)
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"If you cant beat it..." None if US wants it to be "beaten"! That is what YOU have to learn. Why does being gay stir straight persons anger or mock? Why do you care! We have done nothing against you! We want to stay as we are, and be treated equal in job or life! Which obviously you don't!The fact that you are gay does not bother me. I have a large number of gay friends. The fact that you are righteously stupid about it does bother me, however.
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If there would be neede any proof of prejudice, hate and misunderstanding you have the whole thing here in this thread. Quod erat demonstrandum.No QED for you until you actually give a decent argument! If you hadn't noticed, we have several openly gay and bi members on these forums, and it wouldn't be the same here without them. People are just making fun of you because you're acting like a moron.
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No black wants to be white.To paraphrase you: "Have you ever been black? NO! You know nothing! It Hypothetical!
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No yew wants to be christian.Again, "Jew". And Christianity started as a sect of Judaism, so this line has no place here, because it's obviously wrong, since Christianity exists.
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No woman want to be man.Again, wrong. They're called Transsexuals, if memory serves.
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No gay wants to be straight.Again, that's only in your experience, which is not a microcosm of the universe. Sorry to have to break that to you.
Right back at ya.
-Tonamel, who also objects to kenshin's use of the word 'gay', but objects to fools going unchecked even more.
(Sweet mercy, this is a long post!)
BattleMage on 4/6/2002 at 11:20
I completely agree with Tonamel and would like to mention that the gay persons zily talks about are not really gays but transsexuals, people who have a mismaching brain gender and body gender.
Homosexuals, or gays, are completely different. They are simply attracted to people of the same gender and quite happy with that.
Sammi on 4/6/2002 at 11:51
I have to agree with Tonomal here to - sorry if i mispelled your name -
I have a few 'gay' friends,and my cousin is also gay, both my best friend AND my cousin would really rather they hadn't been born 'gay' PURELY because of the social implications, and fear of what the family would think. Its not something anyone has any control over.
The thing you have to realise is that not everyone is having a direct pop at you! Ok it was misuse of the word *gay* but it was in no way personal - or saying anything along the lines - Omfg this games is soo crap like all those twisted unnatural gay ppl out there- was it? He made a comment which u took out of context Avenger honey.
Just out of interest m'dear - how many times have u been set fire to and tortured?
Admittedly much of the torture people in minority communities are subjected to is mental, but u are really not helping honey,you seriously are coming across as the worst bigot of all.
xxx Sammi
