Calibrator on 13/1/2008 at 08:03
Quote Posted by Bikerdude
I dont think I will be getting with the HD3870 just yet, compared fafhrd's HD3870 to the old HD2900 I took ages ago.
ATi HD3870 - cat 7.12ATI HD2900XT - Cat 6.xxIntel 855GMThis really is disappointing - thanks for posting these (saves me money).
BTW, does the Intel graphics chipset / driver show fog?
Calibrator
smithpd on 13/1/2008 at 08:34
Here is Fafhrd's image (ATi HD3870 - cat 7.12) adjusted for gamma and brightness so it more closely resembles Biker's image (ATI HD2900XT - Cat 6.xx). You can see that the color rendering is fairly similar now. But it seems that the 3870 has less distinct (or no) stars. :(
Inline Image:
http://home.comcast.net/~smithpd1/thief/Fafhrd_adjusted.jpgapoppin on the Anandtech forum sent me an image this evening from the HD 2900, Cat 7.12, and Vista. With minor adjustment in gamma, apoppin's image and Biker's image have exactly the same color rendering.
Based on these comparisons, I can conclude that with the 2900 there is no difference between XP and Vista and no difference between Cat. 7.12 and 6.xx.
Yes, this is truly disappointing. It appears that none of the DX-10 cards from ATI or Nvidia have a path forward that includes decent Thief rendering. The only thing that works for us is to use Timeslips DDFIX, which has no fog, or to use an older ATI card. Below is a similar shot made using DDFIX with a 7950 GT.
Inline Image:
http://home.comcast.net/~smithpd1/thief/running_interference_ddfix_adjusted.jpgThe really telling thing about this image is not only the obviously smoother sky but the image of Basso. Note that with DDFIX his clothes have varied colors that show wrinkles. His face looks clean, with smoothly varying color. With the DX-10 cards and without DDFIX, all this detail is washed out. Basso's tunic is nearly solid black, and his face has a mottled appearance caused by color banding.
I think that the ATI x1950 Pro with Cat 7.12 drives, to restore the fog, may be the end of the line now.
Simplex on 13/1/2008 at 10:15
On what drivers was the screen on 7950GT made? I temporarily swapped my brand new 8800GT to 7300GT just to play thief :D and I thought the 'crapy-rendereing-nvidia-suxxx" problem will not concern me, but I guess it does.
The textures, shadows and objects are rendered ok (for an nvidia card ;) ) but the sky is crappy. When I install the fix, game crashes after loading a mission (ddfix.exe crashes), but I am using the infamous 169.x drivers so they probably are the culprit. I will remove them, but I would like to ask what earlier drivers should render thief properly under 7300GT?
Inline Image:
http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/7840/thief2un6.jpgEDIT: Looks like ddfix.exe was crashing when I set 1280x960 res. It works perfectly on 1280x1024. I wish I could play it on 1280x960 (I have a widescreen monitor) but if it nit possible, then bummer.
EDIT2: when i run with ddfix.exe cutscenes are choppy - fraps shows 5fps. Is there a remedy to this?
bikerdude on 13/1/2008 at 15:20
Quote Posted by Calibrator
BTW, does the Intel graphics chipset / driver show fog?Calibrator
Yes, its the only chipset that has been 100% compatable with Thief2 over the years...
Quote:
The only thing that works for us is to use Timeslips DDFIX, which has no fog, or to use an older ATI card.
And the nvidia geforce 5900/5950 cards...(which are quite rare now)
biker
smithpd on 13/1/2008 at 18:20
Quote Posted by Simplex
On what drivers was the screen on 7950GT made?
I would like to ask what earlier drivers should render thief properly under 7300GT?
EDIT2: when i run with ddfix.exe cutscenes are choppy - fraps shows 5fps. Is there a remedy to this?
Your screen shot, after editing to increase gamma, looks just like the typical 7000 series card without the DDFIX patch. All these cards have bad sky, no stars, and bad dark textures in certain susceptible cases but not most cases. Running Interference does not have any examples of bad dark textures with the 7000 cards, so you will not see them there. I made a post in the (
http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=118796&page=3) "Newest ATI Catalyst" thread which shows a location in Eavesdropping that has bad dark textures with the 7000 series. The 8000 cards are clearly much worse and have bad dark textures everywhere.
AFAIK, all Nvidia driver versions look the same in T2 for the 7000 cards, except some versions of 169.xx, which are have really bad artifacts. For the 7000 cards, the only reason to chose one driver over another (excluding 169, which you should avoid) is whether or not T1 runs. I am currently running 163.75, which is as good as it gets for T1, but not noticeably better than any other for T2. For the sake of argument, my DDFIX secreen shot above could have been made with 163.75, but it wasn't. I was an old modified 8x.xx driver which you don't want to know about.
As for lag with ddfix, that has been discussed extensively, but I don't remember what the fix is for that. I don't have that problem. It may depend on version of DDFIX and your settings, including most particularly vsync. I have my vsync set to application controlled in the Nvidia control panel, and I also have the DDFIX parameter vwait=1. There is a (
http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=117616) separate thread for ddfix, and I suggest you look through that and post your problem there.
EDIT: I have a core 2 duo 6600 and a 7950 GT, so my comp is reasonably fast. Perhaps that explains why I am not bothered by lag. I really don't know.
smithpd on 13/1/2008 at 18:29
Quote Posted by Bikerdude
And the nvidia geforce 5900/5950 cards...(which are quite rare now)
Yes, and also the Ti 4xxx cards, of which I have a copy (Ti 4200). But that doesn't show stars. Just good sky. DDFIX looks just as good to me unless there is fog. I'm curious -- do the 5900's show stars?
bikerdude on 13/1/2008 at 21:27
Quote Posted by smithpd
do the 5900's show stars?
you know i cant remember I dont think they do on the latest driver, but may do on the older evga detonator 66.93 driver... maybe when Im bored Ill check it out..
biker
Simplex on 14/1/2008 at 08:29
Smithpd, thanks for an extensive answer. Choppy video problem with ddfix was fixed - turns out you have to press scroll lock during cutscene and the choppiness magically goes away (don't ask me why ;) ).
As far as drivers and graphics cards are concerned, I have 8800GT and there was no way I could make SS2 or Thief work on this card, tried different drivers. My flatmate has 7300GT so I swapped cards with him - using 169.04 beta drivers I was able to finish SS2, Thief and Now I am 2/3 in Thief 2 (with ddfix, after I discovered crappy sky bug). So I guess 169.04 work for me, although this may be an isolated case.
Next time I want to finish thief, I will build a separate box with Windows 98SE and GeForce4 or a similar card, just for those old games that nVidia forgot about.
I wonder is the fog in thief such a big deal? Long time ago I finished thief on Riva TNT so there had to be fog, now I am playing with DDFix so i see now fog, but that does not distract me because I don't have a comparison. Did anyone make fog screens of thief/thief 2? I would like to know what I am missing
BTW. Is there an online-petition to nvidia about this issue? I would gladly sign it.
Nameless Voice on 14/1/2008 at 15:11
There is a petition, but it's useless.
You'd be better off to contact their customer support directly and make a fuss over it.
