vincentlancon on 3/6/2016 at 17:20
This is a great comparison of Thief vs modern AAA titles and how they differ. Tell me what you think.
(
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPqwDGXxLhU) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPqwDGXxLhU
gigagooga on 3/6/2016 at 17:25
I have seen this dozens of times before, and i agree on pretty much everything he says.
Independent Thief on 3/6/2016 at 19:36
Good vid, it sums up what's wrong with today's games-visual perfection is useless without good story telling and freedom of action for the player.
Yandros on 3/6/2016 at 22:17
Quote Posted by Abysmal
Thief is AAA.
The comparison is between Thief and
modern AAA titles.
Starker on 3/6/2016 at 22:36
Actually, I think gaming is pretty fine currently, especially the last few years. I haven't had that much fun with games for at least a decade or so. There are even games I'm looking forward to, like Dishonoured 2 and Shadow Warrior 2.
scumble on 3/6/2016 at 23:47
Quote Posted by Abysmal
You could compare Thief with games from the early 90s, or with Thief's contemporaries, and find similar arguments. Sure, there's obviously a downward trend going on with modern AAA gaming, but I don't think it's fair to draw parallels to Thief. Fact is, Thief is just that damned special. Nothing like it before, then, and since.
You might be right that it's a bit of a fluke. Also interesting considering LGS folded not long after TMA was released. Thief wasn't a terribly commercial type of game.
I think his most interesting point was about how much the player is doing with their own control. Cinematic killmoves and other intrusions do distance you from what you're actually doing in a game, and I hadn't thought of that before.
One of my gripes with modern games is the cinematic sequence with prompts to press some button at a particular time to get past a scene. Far Cry 3, Tomb Raider and The Witcher 2 all have this element. Mash E, press F, press space. Very irritating when you just want to decide how you'll handle the situation.
I'm not the most knowledgeable gamer, but I still haven't come across another game that forces stealth in the same way, as in there is no other option to complete a mission. Also that you've got a sword that is mostly useless unless you're going for a backstab, so that you don't bother using it most of the time.
vincentlancon on 4/6/2016 at 01:16
I absolutely love DisHonored. I have never thought about what makes it different from Thief before, but it does lack a lot of the player vulnerability that forces you to play Thief in it's intended design , that being stealth.
Starker on 4/6/2016 at 03:04
I didn't really get into Dishonored at first, but by Knife of Dunwall it suddenly clicked, as I stopped trying to play as a thief and started to play more like an assassin. It also helped that the protagonist in the DLC is someone with an actual personality.
I've grown to dislike boring "blank slate" characters. If there's going to be character interaction, but no actual roleplaying, at least give me someone entertaining like the Doomguy.
User 205 on 4/6/2016 at 06:30
Quote Posted by vincentlancon
I absolutely love DisHonored. I have never thought about what makes it different from Thief before, but it does lack a lot of the player vulnerability that forces you to play Thief in it's intended design , that being stealth.
Well if you have the Ultimate difficulty mod installed it somewhat forces you to be stealthy. Also I thought the main campaign of Dishonored wasn´t all that great but the 2 DLCs were excellent. I would say they were better than the main game in every regard.
Yakoob on 15/9/2016 at 23:51
Late to the party but I finally got around to watching the video. Enjoyed it a lot, fairly comprehensive without getting too rambly.
One problem I have with the claim that games are regressing is ignoring the reason and benefits of such "regression." Yes, Thief et al. are far more empowering in a literal sense, but that does require a lot more cerebral investment from the players. However, there are some days when I am tired, and just want to turn off my brain and have "fun." On those days, I would rather play the hand-holding Bioshock than navigate the intricate gameplay of System Shock 1/2.
Secondly, the simplification of gameplay is also what led to the current popularity of games. If games remained as complex as the LGS classics, I doubt the gaming world would even be half the size it is today.
Ultimately, just as with other media, there is a place for easy and instantly-rewarding games as much as complex, intellectually stimulating ones. We have enough market space to fit both.
One last thought: I liked the example of the disconnect in the Batman video - with batman doing crazy stunts as you merely bash two buttons. I remember playing that and the "coolness" of Batman's moves never fully registered because of the automation; it just felt like eye-candy I paid minimal attention to aside from "am I aiming in the right direction?" It was a great spectacle, though.
I'm curious how you would implement that kind of spectacular combat while requiring exactness from player? I cringe at the idea of having ten different attack buttons or having to perfectly time/aim my every punch and jump just to land it right. Perhaps Dark Messiah of Might and Magic could get close to that, but it did require first person view to get it right which has far less pizzaz. Many complex games (like Chivarly or Mount and Blade) offer the control at the cost of a far more sluggish gameplay. Fighting games could be a closer example, but they still dumb down many aspects to button mashing and proximity, feel "locked in" the 2D plane, or require a lot more skill (than I have) to pull off correctly.
