Thief Reloaded Contest FM: The Revenge of Lt Hagen by FireMage (05 Feb 2011) - by Sagittal
doug on 24/2/2011 at 17:49
i enjoyed the mission,i thought it was good, it kept crashing near the tavern,so i did what firemage said to do on page one ,that worked.no more crashing,mission compleated
bobber on 24/2/2011 at 20:00
I'm going to have to start over on this one. I kind of gave up after killing 4 or 5 of the people I was supposed to kill. This only after reading through this thread to find out what was going on in this FM. I'm still not to clear yet what I'm supposed to do. Anyway, I usually approach a mission by using my trusty blackjack to put everyone's lights out. I go out of my way to KO everyone if I can! This was no exception which probably made it difficult to folllow. Had to kill 'em after being knocked out. Doesn't seem very nice. Hence, a replay is in order I guess.
Oh, I think the earlier harsh comments by DS were a little over the top too. I'm just glad there are people out there who can create these mssions as I sure as heck can't.
BR4ZIL on 28/3/2021 at 23:14
If anyone is replaying this mission years from now (like i am right now).
Heres a few pointers, this assumes you never touched any invisibile bombs before they spawned:
- The Bombs are bugged but you can disarm them, after the talk with Sammy (make sure you kill him in cold blood after he finished talking with ya, you are a "good guy" afterall :ebil:), go back to the police station and deactivate the 2 bombs in the first floor.
- Go to the second floor and check the bombs, they should be already disarmed, arm and disarm them if wanted.
- Go back to the first floor and disarm the 2 bombs there again (they should re-arm by themselves, the trigger seems to be going to the second floor for the first time (it doesnt matter if you interact with the second floor bombs or not).
-Finally go to the third floor, deal with Malcom, open the locked door and disarm the last bomb.
My guess is that it seems that theres a broken script that was supposed to arm the bombs when you reach their respective floors, but for some reason, the trigger for the second bombs just re-arms the first floor ones.
Furthermore, as of this writting, theres 2 broken "lootable" objects:
- The Scroll under the alarm panel (it should give you 150 "loot", but it doesnt)
- The scroll by the dead policeguy (the one with a golden ring, which is a working lootable), that was supposed to give you 80 loot.
So, as it stands, the maximum loot is 1582/1812
fortuni on 5/9/2022 at 08:38
Courtesy Jax a big dml to fix this ambitious but excellent contest mission from FireMage.
Note 1: Jax went the extra mile with this dml, however due to the complexity of the scripts for Lorgan, Melinda and the bomb sequence players may still experience unexpected issues, this is especially true with Melinda, we have set her to become invisible if threatened but some times she doesn't, but either way she does remain visible if you KO or kill her when she is unaware of you. She is also meant to go invisible if you attack her from a frontal attack, but again she may not, but she appears to always become invisible when alerted in the cells area.
Note 2: The dml is not perfect as you can still break intended scripts, such as killing Sammy with a fire arrow before his confession, so be aware of purposely trying to do things that veer from the intended nature of the mission.
Note 3: Due the the buggy nature of this mission without the dml Ricebug included a lot of information in his walk that was either incorrect or misleading so players are advised to also refer to the Q+A section of (
https://drive.google.com/file/d/14ANgIXShIUUo_Jw1YMPIqaBPqzOnJilP/view?usp=sharing) Fortuni's lootlist for corrections and updates.
Note 4: When copying the code of the dml onto notepad it's possible that notepad will delete some important spaces in the Melinda code, so instead of posting the dml code directly we are posting the dml already premade.
(
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1e6E9oKOuAnDo-J6nPF0CiyiExM02MIx2/view?usp=sharing) Revenge of Lt. Hagen dml
(
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_jMAwrG-Bxi4AqUz2JLCGiz5cVDQPtei/view?usp=sharing) Mirror
Fixes:-
Minor Issues1. Misplaced objects (bottle, bread roll, scroll, Mechanical eye, gas arrow, gas mines, mine, quiver, buckets, healing fruit, wall painting)
2. Prevent broadhead on guard in prison area being frobbed until you collect the quiver
3. Locker doors (stop frobbing items through closed doors)
4. New mantle issues on fence
5. Physics on chair in tavern (AI can still fall through it though)
More Important Issues1. Fix female archer and Alonso so they react when alerted (they just stood there before)
2. Hanging arrow bug in Zelir cave
3. Stops Melinda going invisible if you KO her or kill before she is alert (logic states that she couldn't possibly swallow an invisibility potion if she is unconscious or dead, but she still becomes invisible if you alert her whilst she's conscious)
4. Fix Melinda being unable to open double doors to courtyard, so proceeds to prison area unimpeded.
5. Stop Melinda being teleported into prison cell area if she is KO'd or dead when players pick up the scroll in the torture chamber, this prevents a silly looking dead Melinda floating a meter above the ground. (logic states that she can't swallow an invisibility potion if she is incapacitated).
6. Fix various doors so that Sheriff Mosley can go through them (used to get stuck trying to go through door at top of stairs and stairs to secure records if alerted and trying to run to flee point)
7. Fix lounge door (Bogdan couldn't open it and would get suck in that room on his patrol)
8. Fix all missing loot so 100% of loot is now available (3 items were missing)
9. Prevent Sammy's journal in the abandoned house from flying into the void if sneaky players use a fire arrow to blow the windows out.
10. Prevent Sammy's journal from being read until you have received the objective to actually read it.
Major Fixes1. Bombs now work correctly (Players can not arm/disarm bombs/time gauges before you get the objective off Sammy, dml also prevents all bombs rearming/disarming when you climbed the stairs to the secure records, so can now disable all bombs, get to Malcom, kill him, get his key and get to the final bomb with relative ease.)
2. Lorgan: Have changed the teleport position of Evil Lorgan to being inside the generator room. (You used to be able to alert friendly Lorgan, get him to go into the generator room where he would disappear, trouble is if you didn't block the door you would get locked in as evil organ with the key teleported outside the building so game over. Now if you follow him into the room and yes the door locks behind you but now Lorgan teleports into that room, forcing you to kill him allowing you to get the key so can then get back out.)
Unable to fix / No fix attempted1. Water tunnel to get to one of the secrets in the basement. (I've come across this before, I think Garrett has put on weight with Newdark as sometimes he can't fit into spaces that he could do previously, but sadly we can't fix such issues with dml's, having said that I did manage to squeeze into the tunnel on a couple of occasions but it's not easy)
2. The forum reports that there are at least 3 locations in which the game crashes, but neither Jax or myself could replicate any such crash, so looks like Newdark has come to the rescue with these crashes.
baeuchlein on 6/9/2022 at 23:22
Jax, fortuni - thank you for your work.:thumb: But I'm afraid it ain't over yet.:erg:
Some issues were still present while I played the mission, and there's another location where New mantle can get the unwary player into trouble. Finally, I confirm your assumptions on the crashes being history with NewDark.
I have placed a few zipped-up savegames (
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AmV4DcMDnt19gV6EjGBmIessL-U6?e=jfJP7l) here on MS' OneDrive. Might be useful. A short summary of what's in these saves is in the text file included. All saves were made with a game patched with T2Fix v1.27d - I have yet to install v1.27e one day. If you think this matters in this case, tell me/us.
Melinda still isn't cured of her bad drinking habit.
No matter how I kill, blackjack or gas her while she's in no-alert mode, she usually utters something and drops down, then jumps up again, yells something, drops down again and vanishes. Looking at savegames in DromEd shows her being in lowest alert state before I act, and in state 3 after she's invisible and incapacitated by death or unconsciousness. game0013.sav ("TEST: Whacking Melinda") is made just before attacking unwary Melinda. game0014.sav ("TEST: Unable-to-pick-up Melinda") is made after making her unconscious (by gas arrow, I think). She is unconscious, and I can't pick her up, yet I can bump into her body on the ground.
In at least one case, DromEd also showed an additional object near unconscious Melinda. The object was called a dagger of some sort, and was also invisible and most likely unobtainable as well. Without the savegame loaded in DromEd, I would never ever have detected this mysterious dagger object.
By the way, the Mastermind also once displayed a surprising amount of activity while being dead. I had dropped an explosive mine where he would appear later on:ebil:, then proceeded to kill Samy in order for the Mastermind to appear, and the goal to dispose of the seven rogues ticked off. However, when I went to where the dead Mastermind should litter the ground, he suddenly came running towards me. Neither blackjack nor sword could harm him, so I followed him until he went down the stairs towards the ground level of Shoalsgate. Just near the torch, he suddenly dropped down on the floor, and I could finally get the key I wanted from him.:weird:
Maybe Melinda's drinking habit and the Masterminds Not-Dead-Yet state have a common origin, since both oddities manifest after the victim should already be incapacitated. Well, happy bug-hunting anyway.The bombs seem to be more reliable than in the original mission release, where I had the one in
the mess hall explode even before meeting Melinda, Samy or the Mastermind. Still, the bombs acted weird rather often. Frequently, frobbing a bomb once did produce the bomb deactivation sound twice. In one case, the bomb still seemed to be deactivated (instead of being deactivated and then re-activated again immeadiately), since I continued playing for some time without it exploding.
In another game session, I raced through the building in order to deactivate the bombs. After the one in the main office, I went to the barracks and deactivated the one in there. When I ran out of the door, the bomb exploded, killing me and placing debris in the doorway. What a sorry way for Hagen's career to finally end.
Most of the bomb issues seemed to be random and were fatal, often because nearby unconscious people got killed by an explosion. Therefore, I don't have any useful saves for the mysteries of the bombs.
Samy's diary never became readable for me.
If I prevented him from begging for his life by killing him before he was even aware of me (thus never activating the diary goal), then rendered the Mastermind unconscious and snatched the silver or grey unlabelled key from him, and finally went to where the diary is, the diary wasn't frobbable (usable). Probably just like it should be.
When, however, I let Samy beg for his life (which activated the diary-related goal), and then either blackjacked or killed him, then went to fetch the key from the Mastermind, and finally entered the room where the diary is, the diary was still not frobbable - but the desk below it was. I could take the whole desk (woah, this Hagen fellow must be really strong!), which made it appear in the bottom center part of the screen, like a chest or other "junk object". I could carry the whole desk around, but not throw it away. I could drop (release) it though, but it would defy gravity and float in the air in this case. The diary does still hover in the air in the same spot where it was before the desk was taken away from under it. The book was neither usable (making reading it impossible), nor could I pick it up. DromEd shows that the "Frob Inert" property was still present. game0011.sav ("TEST: Weird desk, weird Samy-book") shows this situation. The book is floating before the player, the desk is hovering behind him.New mantle still gives the player access to an area where (s)he shouldn't be. If the player leaves Shoalsgate through the main exit/entrance, as if to visit the tavern, but then turns left and follows the river, (s)he reaches an iron fence (object number 107) and a large tank (1578) blocking the path. However, by Newmantling over fence, tank and/or the pipe (235) attached to the latter, one can still get into the area beyond. Unfortunately, there are some floating buttons and switches there which are certainly not meant to be used by the player. Making these three objects non-mantleable could be a good idea, I think.
Good news about the crashes, though.:D On my two remaining OldDark installations, I could reliably crash the game when approaching Shoalsgate from the side entrance (where the player arrives after escaping from prison), standing near the right end of the canal and looking along it. Two NewDark installations, one of them being on the same machine than one of the OldDark installations, did never crash there, nor did they crash anywhere else in the game.
I think we can be rather sure now that these crashes have been an OldDark problem which does not occur on NewDark.
fortuni on 7/9/2022 at 00:15
I'll check out your saves and retest the dml tomorrow, but I tested the dml in various stages of it's production and Melinda never went invisible when I KO'd her or killed her so don't understand why that happened with you.
And there is no way you should be able to arm/disarm the bombs before you kill the first 6 conspirators including Sammy. The gauges you see before you get the bombs objective act as the timers but the actual bombs are do not appear before you get the goal off Sammy, before the dml you could frob the gauges before Sammy's goal but with the dml they are disabled entirely before then, so am questioning as to whether the dml installed correctly.
PS. Oops looks like the Newmantle issues were left out of the dml
Marbrien on 13/9/2022 at 14:31
I installed the DML and played on Expert, but also had some issues. If I follow "good" Logan into the building with the furnace, I get locked in with no way out. If I kill "good" Logan in there, "evil" Logan's body appears too, but neither corpse has a key, and sometimes the door closes and locks automatically so again I can't get out. The safest bet seems to kill Logan outdoors.
Melinda (if that's her name, the female archer) appears but never moves anywhere unless she sees me. She does not walk to and unlock the wooden door with the sign nearby so I never get to explore that area. I can kill her but she has a habit of sinking partially into the ground leaving only her eyebrows behind.
Aside from these technical issues, I also found the English, both spoken and written, largely unintelligible, which made the whole thing much less fun than it could have been.
fortuni on 13/9/2022 at 15:30
We have discovered that part of the problem with the dml is that the number of spaces between the “ and A in the Melinda lines need to number 3, however both this forum and possibly notepad reduces the number of spaces down to only 2, this has a significant impact on Melinda's behaviour.
We're still testing new dml's but every time Jax makes a new dml Baeuchlein and I experience different oddities and not only in Melinda's behaviour. Baeuchlein keeps finding bodies teleporting into strange places, sometimes the mission finishes early, and there are still oddities in the Logan scripting. In the latest dml we appeared to have the Logan script working correctly apart from if you blocked the door before it locks behind you, do that and it get seriously mess up the evil Logan.
Hopefully we'll get there in the end so please bear with us.
PS. I left the dml there in case someone else reported other odd behaviours, and yes marbleman you did, your experience with Melinda not doing anything until she sees you has been seen before, but her disappearing into the ground is new, have you got a save?
Marbrien on 13/9/2022 at 16:59
I think what is actually happening with Melinda for me is that she turns invisible at the moment she dies. Not a very useful trick in the circumstances!