Thief, rebooted. - by SubJeff
SubJeff on 6/9/2018 at 11:31
Quote Posted by zacharias
Yeah I third that. So defensive.
Oh really?
Let's look. Some of the replies:
Quote:
Absolutely not! Thief is fine as it is-leave it to the FM builders to tweak and add on to it-not some major game company that will turn the thing inside out with the end result being something that has little resemblance to the original game.
This is illogical.
Quote:
It's not about having "nuts", it's about having enough functioning brain cells to realize Thief doesn't need another game and that it should be left alone with its little remaining dignity
Dignity? What is this guy talking about??!
SubJeff on 6/9/2018 at 11:39
Quote Posted by zacharias
Edit: one thing I wouldn't have, even with spells, is a teleport power like blink. It's overpowered, imo, and takes too much of the challenge/fun out of climbing.
Definitely agree with this.
I would like a new Thief to be scalpel-like in it's aping of the core Thief mechanic, yes. Dishonored's stealth is nowhere near as good, although they did get mantling absolutely perfect.
I also play Dishonored stealthy and non-lethal, though I've yet to play Dishonored 2 yet.
I use Batman AC as an example because of two things - 1. that huge play area. 2. the core gameplay staying the same but new tools/abilities stacking up. And Thief could be like Dishonored in that you don't need to use lots of the abilities or kit. I never use the mines in Dishonored and focus on evading.
To be clear - I'm only advocating new stuff where it a. makes sense and we have the tech for it now, e.g. moving shadows and b. where it can widen the appeal to make the game more successful.
Otherwise, a reboot like Bulgarian Taffer says - just an overhaul.
Judith on 6/9/2018 at 12:11
Huge play area isn't a merit in itself, especially if it gives room mostly to shallow gameplay, see that Batman: Scourge of scale video I linked.
Second thing, and that is stressed in that Thief vs AAA gaming video as well: that huge variety of playstyles and approaches Dishonored brought to the table is a player expression feast only in theory. You might see you and several of your friends playing in different styles, but ultimately our human brains are lazy. We'll pick one, maybe two weapons and skills that we think work best, and we'll stick to them for the whole game. While Arkane's Prey was also sticking to that design philosophy, that Mooncrash DLC apparently returned to the idea originally presented in original Thief: that maybe it's more interesting to restrict your arsenal and abilities, to force you to make more interesting decisions (you play through the same environment with time limit and with different characters that have different strengths/weaknesses/limitations).
Edit: Dishonored 2 also has "no powers run" mode, so it can be kinda closer to this philosophy, if you overcome the FOMA and let the game restrict you ;)
zacharias on 6/9/2018 at 12:21
Quote Posted by SubJeff
Oh really?
Yeah, really. The 'thiefflakes' thing, really, there's no call for that. Granted some of the replies are snarky but you are being defensive.
Look I actually wouldn't mind a re-boot, but as I said I really doubt the original magic can ever really be recaptured. And things like skill trees, backflips, magic boots - Thief was class because it jettisoned stuff like this, imo.
TannisRoot on 6/9/2018 at 14:18
Quote Posted by SubJeff
I'm struggling to find games to captivate me and I'd like a modern take on it.
Maybe that's a problem with you and not something modern AAA game design is going to solve.
SubJeff on 6/9/2018 at 21:42
Maybe.
The last game I got really excited about and then really liked was Hyperlight Drifter.
I'm looking at Bastion right now.
ZylonBane on 6/9/2018 at 22:29
Quote Posted by zacharias
Have the magic system from Arx where you draw runes on-screen
I hate, hate, hate rune-drawing systems. First, their recognition systems almost always suck, and second, even when they work, they're slow and awkward. Just give me a radial menu.
McTaffer on 6/9/2018 at 23:48
Quote Posted by Purgator
Mmmmmmm.....
I'm a Khorne Flakes man myself.
On a more topical note, as I've said many times, I don't think a Thief reboot or sequel could ever really work. Thiaf in particular is a testament to that, but no matter what could hypothetically get made, it's not going to satisfy everyone. Pander to fans of the original, and sales won't be high enough. Give it a broader appeal, and you'll alienate us. I'm satisfied with Thief influenced stuff because original IPs don't have to stack themselves up to a gigantic legacy. Dishonored et al worked for me because they felt like a Thief/Deus Ex mashup and, while I could see the influence, I adjusted my frame of mind to their rules. Thiaf had to stack itself up to its predecessors and so the obvious rope arrow limitations and swooping instead of jumping instantly made the experience feel off. With Dishonored, there's no such feeling because all the systems feel distinct. A new world, new characters, but the same sort of feeling. They're not as good, but they're good in their own way. Dishonored 2 was the closest I've ever seen a AAA game come to Thief, and that's fine. Most of the sneaky sneaky, none of the baggage.
zacharias on 7/9/2018 at 04:07
Quote Posted by ZylonBane
I hate, hate, hate rune-drawing systems. First, their recognition systems almost always suck, and second, even when they work, they're slow and awkward. Just give me a radial menu.
Possibly; I probably haven't played enough, but it worked ok for me in arx. At least it's kinda involving, and you can mess up a spell under duress, as you could in d & d. Radial menus are boring and pretty much a ‘press a to win' type thing, imo - for a spell system at least. They're fine for general things.
