Thief, rebooted. - by SubJeff
SubJeff on 6/9/2018 at 04:29
Quote Posted by FireMage
No! I said, Garrett don't have to use any kind of magic for gameplay purpose in a Thief game. The only kind of "magic" that Garrett can use are the elementary crystals and the potions. Simple effect to help but it never remove the challenge.
The stealth in darkness is pretty magic too. The Sword is magic...
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When I'm reading the amount of crazy things you're saying I'm even wondering if you have ever played the original Thief games...
This makes not sense at all. Of course I've played them. On Expert no less. How would I have played Equilibrium if I hadn't played them? I've played loads of FMs too
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As for Equilibrium, excuse me sir, but first, what's the point? Secondly, once again, you seem to live in another dimension because I never heard that people were hating this mission.
It's you who have misread. My point was - if you think stealth in darkness, a Keeper "skill", isn't magic then what the hell is going on in Equilibrium? The Keepers in that are invisible in the dark. Invisible. Great FM btw, one of my favourites.
SubJeff on 6/9/2018 at 04:35
Quote Posted by Judith
The problem is, no developer would want to work on that.
But if one did?
I can see it - a Thief reboot with all new tech, but the same flavour as the originals, that you can play with only the original mechanics. Dishonored has less complex core mechanics; no Stealth in Darkness, no sound based stealth or movement that affects this. So the core mechanics are actually a little more complex than any stealth FP game out there.
Adding some sensible mechanics that shouldn't upset the many Thieflakes (that are out in force itt. No surprise I guess) like hanging of things would be nice.
The other stuff would just be a layer for those who want it. I'd guess a few self flagellating uber-fans would play it with only the original mechanics, which they should have the option to. But newcomers and others would have a choice.
See, if the feeling is NO NO NO of course you'll never get a good reboot. What dev would bother when the fanbase just vomits at everything that isn't
exactly the same as a 20 year old game?
Judith on 6/9/2018 at 05:36
I meant, apart from companies that focus on remasters and "historical preservation", no dev would want to do that, for various reasons.
First being, this is a creative industry, even AAA. People want to leave their mark when they work on something. Interpret old ideas, show their take, etc. Even if they got it wrong, like with last Thief reboot, it was their work, their take on the game and the genre, however flawed it was. Making a game that is 1:1 to original, but with new tech would be hard to justify. Even kids like Nightdive Studios who worked on System Shock 1 remaster/remake got pretty far with their creative ideas, and had to start from square one, because they went too far.
Also yeah, invisibility in darkness is sort of magical skill, tools are either magic or tech, something we learned to accept pretty quickly, as it felt organic and tied to gameplay.
ZylonBane on 6/9/2018 at 07:08
It's fairly obvious that this entire thread has just been a slow-motion tantrum on Subject's part since the first post didn't get the adulation he was hoping for.
SubJeff on 6/9/2018 at 07:17
Yes yes ZB whatever, but do think a Thief reboot would be successful now?
I'm struggling to find games to captivate me and I'd like a modern take on it.
Judith on 6/9/2018 at 07:37
I'd like to think it would, but have you noticed that basically all latest and successful AAA immersive-sims have been put on hold? Deus Ex and Dishonored are "resting", and the last thing released was Prey: Mooncrash (which I've heard is awesome, but haven't bought it yet).
skacky on 6/9/2018 at 07:47
Quote Posted by ZylonBane
It's fairly obvious that this entire thread has just been a slow-motion tantrum on Subject's part since the first post didn't get the adulation he was hoping for.
Pretty much this. This whole thread reeks of "look at my awesome ideas!" coupled with "la la la can't hear you, delicate snowflakes" when proper counter-arguments are presented.
zacharias on 6/9/2018 at 08:48
Yeah I third that. So defensive.
I'd certainly look at a reboot. Could it ever really re-capture the magic? Are these games ‘mainstream' enough to be green lit in this day and age? I doubt it on both counts.
I said a while back what i'd like is a game where you play as a thief/magician. Have the magic system from Arx where you draw runes on-screen, but you are basically still playing a thief character. Big atmospheric cityscape levels, scary enemies, a good plot - the thief DNA but modified. I'd check it out.
Above all - keep thief as the scalpel, not the Swiss Army knife (deus ex). Most of these ideas are unnecessary, if not downright cheesy. Magic boots? :p
By the way, on equilibrium; I interpreted the keepers as a visual approximation of what searching for a skilled thief would be like. I don't think it was meant to be interpreted as real magic. My $0.02.
Edit: one thing I wouldn't have, even with spells, is a teleport power like blink. It's overpowered, imo, and takes too much of the challenge/fun out of climbing.
Sulphur on 6/9/2018 at 09:59
Well, the nice thing about Dishonored is that many of the things you might not want to use (except for Blink, but I think the level design doesn't force you to use it too often) are optional. Allowing for various approaches does have the knock-on effect of making the experience less tightly ratcheted than Thief's comparably narrower design, but it's a trade-off that works for the kind of open-ended missions and murderous context Dishonored presents.
Thirith on 6/9/2018 at 10:55
I know there are stealth pros that are more critical of Dishonored's stealth mechanisms, but both the first and second game came closest to my experience of Thief. I mainly played stealthily and non-lethally, as I do when I play Thief, and to me the stealth never felt compromised because of the multitude of options (even though it surely was in technical terms). The reverse of this is one of the reasons why I never really loved Deus Ex the way most people here do: while I liked the game giving me all these different approaches to choose from, any individual approach felt decidedly more basic than it would have in a game dedicated to this sort of gameplay. Deus Ex's gunplay, stealth and traversal never felt particularly enjoyable to me. Dishonored's individual approaches were considerably more enjoyable in isolation than those of Deus Ex; I could play the game as a first-person stealth experience and have fun or I could play it as a creative shooter and enjoy it.
What exactly am I getting at? It's probably this: in theory, I'm with zacharias - I'd prefer a Thief reboot or spiritual sequel to be a scalpel, not a Swiss Army knife - but in practice I've seen that more multi-approach games (like those by Arkane) can make get each individual approach highly enjoyable.
