Thief Petition: Release the dark engine source.

New Horizon on 21/4/2006 at 13:52

We're starting the crusade here at home folks. This is the TTLG crowd and we need to support each other, regardless of whether or not we are fans of one game or the other, we all post here...so lets lend a hand.

Take 60 seconds and sign this petition to have Eidos release the old Dark Engine materials. I'm posting this in every forum on TTLG...I'll likely get myself banned for spamming or something, but I don't care. Aid the cause. The Thief community has waited long enough. Lets see if we can double the number of signatures by Monday.

(http://ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74329)

Shadowspawn on 21/4/2006 at 17:46

I just went to sign it and discovered I already signed it long ago, signature # 272.

deadman on 21/4/2006 at 21:11

Interesting how alike us rabble-rousers think eh, New Horizon? ;) I myself had been thinking for some time about starting a thread on the subject, except for the Thief 3 source code, perhaps sending feelers out to Krypt asking what his thoughts on it were. As I recalled him (or another dev, perhaps) saying the source was likely lying around and would require Eidos to pay someone to get it in a releaseable state, I wondered how that would add to the equation.

I immediately thought of starting some fundraising campaign with the predictable observation that many would be cynical to it. I also found the necessity of getting in contact with someone from Eidos to first ask if releasing the source code was even feasible (legally and practically). After all, it would most-likely be quite the needless headache if we actually raised money and had to give it back because Eidos just wouldn't cooperate.

Then there was the issue of how much money would be required. Could we trust them to be honest with the estimated wages of a single techie (of whatever title the job required) over the estimated time? But then, we couldn't possible raise enough to entice them of robbing us, would we (i.e., they have bigger fish to fry; much bigger fish)?

Anyway, we're more likely to receive the source code for the Dark Engine, wot? Pipe dreams, all of this...

EDIT: Funny, I responded to the linked thread about halfway down the first page. Probably signed the petition twice now. D'oh!

Aja on 22/4/2006 at 01:35

Has anyone actually spoken to an Eidos executive? Internet petitions mean nothing. Seems to me the first step would be to get in direct contact with an exec.

Seems to me the second step would be to keep contacting said exec until he gets so irritated that he relents. ;)

GlasWolf on 22/4/2006 at 06:04

Probably be worth trying some of the support guys at the Eidos forums. We were very lucky to have Scott Holbert on our side for T3Ed, it's a shame he's moved on.

Gingerbread Man on 22/4/2006 at 08:08

If you're going to bark up trees, let's at least make sure it's the right one, hey?

Ownership of the Dark engine was transferred to Intermetrics Entertainment Software LLC which, if you remember, was who LGS partnered with before AverStar told them to get lost (presumably around the time LGS was failing). AverStar is a conglomerate which includes Intermetrics, and AverStar itself is now owned by Titan -- a leading provider of information and communications technologies for the Department of Homeland Security.

GlasWolf on 22/4/2006 at 10:06

That lead me to this: (http://uk.gamespy.com/articles/697/697083p17.html)

Quote Posted by Mark LeBlanc

Then we merged with Intermetrics, which later became AverStar, and for a while we were "Intermetrics Entertainment Software, LLC," doing business as "Looking Glass Studios." Then later, AverStar threw us back into the sea and we became "Looking Glass Studios, Inc."

So did AverStar throw the dark engine "back into the sea" with LG or would they have retained ownership?

OrbWeaver on 22/4/2006 at 10:55

Of course, we could just wait a couple of years until the Doom 3 engine is open-sourced, which absolutely 0wns both Dark and Flesh. No petition is even needed, since this is what id does anyway.

deadman on 22/4/2006 at 16:37

Quote Posted by OrbWeaver

Of course, we could just wait a couple of years until the Doom 3 engine is open-sourced, which absolutely 0wns both Dark and Flesh. No petition is even needed, since this is what id does anyway.

The "problem" only lies in putting all our efforts to work on the obsolete Flesh engine. Not to call it a waste of time (beautiful missions have come out of the obsolete Dark and more will come out of Flesh), and certainly, one can make the argument that fun mods can be made on any engine, no matter how outdated or limited, but it's sad we always get the shortest straw when it comes to engines/editors.

The funny thing about Doom 3 will be the same issue; by the time the source is released, the engine won't "0wn" at all compared to as-yet-released engines. One can only hope there will be enough coders out there who will find it worthwhile to bring it up to date, with the proper know-how (and it won't take too long to do so).

Interesting to hear about Intermetrics. And sad their owner is wasting their time with the incompetent Homeland Security ;)

New Horizon on 22/4/2006 at 16:46

Quote Posted by deadman

I wouldn't be surprised if we'll be able to hack some things into doom 3 when Quake Wars is released. The beginnings of the Mega Texture tech are in Doom 3...I wonder if the modders will be able to somehow get it working by porting it through the SDK somehow. That's the great thing about doom 3, we already have so much code access. If people were to start familiarizing themselves with it now, they would be ready when the full source code is released.