jtr7 on 14/6/2013 at 10:48
If only the devs had their Focus mode on when making a friggin' Thief title, and made another Thief title instead of a big pot of chunky stew with a thin but pungent Thief broth base, loaded up with popular and trendy mystery meats and a kinky overuse of salt, rather than bucking the damned system. LOL
If it were Thief in greater proportion to the rest of it, it would not sell as well as DX:HR, but you don't choose to make a Thief title and not plan for that budget, and to keep it focused!
SubJeff on 14/6/2013 at 11:07
Quote Posted by jtr7
This is Thief 2.0: Kitchen Sink, with a taffer's skeleton inside, missing limbs.
Ok, as vapid as your whining is this is genuinely hilarious.
Chade on 14/6/2013 at 12:08
Quote Posted by Shinrazero
Your statement that "100's of games have this feature" is a red herring, a distraction of my supporting point to jtr that Thief and Tomb Raider are similar in design, nothing more.
Thief and Tomb Raider do not look similar in design, but they do share some elements. Anyway, I can go on about what jtr said and what you said and what the evidence says, or we can drop this.
Quote Posted by Zewp
Highlighting items isn't giving the player more 'tools,' it's dumbing the game down so that frat boys with the attention span of a goldfish can also play it ...
Are you actually arguing against anything I said, or just reacting negatively to my use of the word 'tools' for some reason? Clearly focus is a tool. And yes, it's probably been introduced to help "frat boys" (along with "harried parents" and all the other gamers who will play this but either can't or won't do a deep dive into it).
Zewp on 14/6/2013 at 13:34
You seem to be missing my point. I was pointing out that there's a difference between giving the player more tools to improve his play experience and giving the player more tools because they're trying to dumb said play experience down. I understand the argument that people like harried parents should also be catered for, but is it absolutely necessary that every single major game cater to the casual market? If a harried parent doesn't have time to sit and play a deep and complex game, there are tons of other games that person could be playing.
jtr7 on 14/6/2013 at 13:52
They could use a walkthrough, and they and the rest of us could have a deeper immersive experience for it, as well as a much further developed product with much less complication.
Chade on 14/6/2013 at 13:52
Quote Posted by Zewp
You seem to be missing my point. I was pointing out that there's a difference between giving the player more tools to improve his play experience and giving the player more tools because they're trying to dumb said play experience down.
Right, and what I said was "tools to help them [the players] choose their actions", which is just a less judgmental way of saying "tools to dumb the game down". I don't think you are disagreeing with anything I actually said, if that was your intention.
SneakyJack on 14/6/2013 at 18:17
Quote Posted by MoroseTroll
Which FMs did you play and when?
What version did you play and when?
(
http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=124349)
Look under TDM reviews - I think I did a dozen or more and also reviewed the mod itself. You can see where I left off and I'm sure it's been quite a long time and I've probably missed a few updates. I was very high on the mod from the beginning (the beginning being my first playthrough of a mission) and still have fond memories of it and the missions I played. While it would have been awesome having the team behind the mod making the official game unfortunately it's not what they were working on. They were trying to come as close to Thief as possible without being sued. Looking back on the review I guess I did feel more like it was an extension of the Thief universe than I thought so perhaps saying it's 'not even close' is a bad phrase to use. It was pretty close.
It's been nearly four years since I wrote that review and four years in the world of games might as well be an eternity. I'd have to try the mod again in it's latest version to see how it's aged and how the gameplay holds up. My point was that no matter how close the mod can get to the gameplay of thief it's not going to be the same as if it were able to use actual Thief assets, story and lore. It's a fantastic mod but it will always feel like a bit of a knockoff due to only being able to imitate actual Thief creations. I suppose I should have went more into my reasoning than just saying not even close.
And trying some of the new missions with the updated mod has been put on my list of things to do as well.
Springheel on 14/6/2013 at 19:35
Quote:
My point was that no matter how close the mod can get to the gameplay of thief it's not going to be the same as if it were able to use actual Thief assets, story and lore
Nope, it will never be the same, though as you said in your review, "Never once did I think I was playing anything other than an extension of the Thief universe."
I hope we can say the same thing about Thief4. It will be interesting to see how many "actual Thief assets" the new Thief actually uses. Some people might prefer a nameless thief to a thief named "Garrett" who has a different voice and personality, or Hammerite knock-offs called "Builders" to no Hammerites at all. ;)
Quote:
It's been nearly four years since I wrote that review ... I'd have to try the mod again in it's latest version to see how it's aged
You certainly should, in all seriousness. Grayman's "In the North" is brilliant. Many of the negative things you addressed in your initial review have been fixed or improved upon in the last few years, including making blackjacking easier, adding easier difficulty levels for combat, improved and more sophisticated AI behaviour, etc.
TDM will be going standalone in a matter of months with version 2.0, so there's no excuse for not giving it a try at that point.
SneakyJack on 14/6/2013 at 20:02
Quote Posted by Springheel
Nope, it will never be the same, though as you said in your review, "Never once did I think I was playing anything other than an extension of the Thief universe."
A fair point - and before you posted this I edited my previous post to reflect that I had went back and re-read my review and I guess I had forgotten over the years how close it came to being the Thief experience. I was quite smitten with it and admitted as much. Then again I had just come off of playing Thief 3 and was pretty underwhelmed by it as well and I think that made The Dark Mod look even better to me. With The Dark Mod going standalone.. if Thief 4 does turn out a dud then I'm sure there will be even more fans converted to it.
Quote Posted by Springheel
I hope we can say the same thing about Thief4. It will be interesting to see how many "actual Thief assets" the new Thief actually uses. Some people might prefer a nameless thief to a thief named "Garrett" who has a different voice and personality, or Hammerite knock-offs called "Builders" to no Hammerites at all. ;)
Another fair point. Being that the Hammerites are one of my absolute favorite parts of Thief lore their absence from the next game will be a big negative for me. Has it been confirmed either way if they are in or out? And your point about it being a different 'Garrett' is not lost on me either. I suppose my meaning there was that people want to see what happens next in the canon Thief universe and unfortunately The Dark Mod can't speak for that. Then again to reinforce your point there are people in the 'Is the next Thief game canon?" thread trying to debunk the events of the next game even mattering as well so that too is a toss up.
Quote Posted by Springheel
You certainly should, in all seriousness. Grayman's "In the North" is brilliant. Many of the negative things you addressed in your initial review have been fixed or improved upon in the last few years, including making blackjacking easier, adding easier difficulty levels for combat, improved and more sophisticated AI behaviour, etc.
TDM will be going standalone in a matter of months with version 2.0, so there's no excuse for not giving it a try at that point.
Great news about The Dark Mod becoming standalone - one of the biggest things holding it back was having to have a copy of Doom 3 installed to even try it. Most people just wont go that far out of their way to play a mod for a game they otherwise wouldn't have played.
As we speak I'm re-installing my copy of Doom 3 and downloading The Dark Mod's newest version along with the fan mission you suggested so I'll do just that. Perhaps a new run though will completely change my mind. I'm not afraid to admit when I know that I am wrong about something so I'll see how it goes.
Shinrazero on 14/6/2013 at 20:25
Quote Posted by Springheel
TDM will be going standalone in a matter of months with version 2.0, so there's no excuse for not giving it a try at that point.
I'm excited for a standalone version.
