kora on 15/6/2013 at 05:21
Quote Posted by Renzatic
Man, you broke character! I thought you were good at this.
I think he's right... The devs there have got to be newborn amateurs who've just come out with their degree, even though they seem like they're trying hard to do the right thing.. we need veteran devs making this game.
Renzatic on 15/6/2013 at 05:41
Quote Posted by kora
I think he's right... The devs there have got to be newborn amateurs who've just come out with their degree, even though they seem like they're trying hard to do the right thing.. we need veteran devs making this game.
Not necessarily. TDM was made by a bunch of amateurs in their spare time, and it came out brilliantly. EM is staffed with people both new to the industry and old hats alike. Plus they already have one difficult to make game under their belt as it is, which turned out far better than anyone expected it to.
Though the TDM team did have one advantage that EM doesn't. They only had to cater to the oldschool crowd. Hell, they are the oldschool crowd for the most part. EM? They want an update to a beloved classic so that it appeals both to the oldschool and the new. That's not an easy thing to attempt. A lot has changed in the games industry since '98. Some of it for the better, some for the worst. But matter which side of the great modern games are crap/great debate you're on, no one can deny that games play a good bit differently than they did back then. There are different styles, different expectations to adhere to. EM has to walk a tightrope here. They have to make a game that stays true to the spirit of the originals while offering up all the modern perks and conveniences everyone expects these days.
Deus Ex was fairly easy to adapt. Thief? I'd think it's a difficult game to update without losing anything in the translation.
Do I think EM is up to the challenge? That's hard to say. The only truthful answer I can give is...eh...I dunno. But one thing's for sure, I don't think they're a bunch of mouthbreathing morons who want to rape the series for a quick buck.
Edit: And if you believe they are, ask yourself this...
1. If they wanted to make a quick buck on a AAA blockbuster, why have they spent 5 years futzing around with it, experimenting with the gameplay? Wouldn't it be easier for them to whip up a 3rd person Splinter Cell clone in about a year and a half and sell that?
2. According to some people here, Thief is anathema to "the masses". The big publishers fear it. It's apparently never made money, and has only been loved by those chosen, intelligent few.
...so why the hell would they revive the name with the hopes that it'll sell 50 billion copies? That just doesn't make sense. The usual argument is "oh, they're not creative or imaginative, so they dig up and destroy old established franchises in the hopes it'll sell on name alone". Which is equal nonsense because, according to them, "the masses" have apparently never heard of Thief, and the big publishers hate it, so...uh? Wuh?
Yeah, I kinda went off on a tangent here.
jtr7 on 15/6/2013 at 05:49
I guess when Stephane Roy keeps mentioning the DNA of Thief, he's talking mitochondrial.
SubJeff on 15/6/2013 at 05:58
If you think that after what you've seen you're an idiot.
Starker on 15/6/2013 at 06:10
Quote Posted by jtr7
I dunno, DF, I wonder if Garrett frobs and auto-consumes, or if he carries them like health potions in the inventory. He's gotta take home that trophy vase from some fat nobleman, first, I think.
They are like mana potions. They go into the inventory and you use them from there to fill the bar.
jtr7 on 15/6/2013 at 06:23
Yeah, I just rewatched a vid, trying to ignore the distracting stuff, and saw the player grab a poppy flower and put it away, while the Focus-mana remained depleted.
The lightgem has a soft pulse, so that's unnecessary and confusing. When it goes from black to gray, it flashes brighter and settles, and when it goes white, it isn't a steady white. It's either to keep grabbing player-attention to compensate for a flaw, or to create tension. The dang map circles each of the three routes they want you to choose from.
Interestingly, ScrewAttack mentions Deus Ex: The Fall and other Square-Enix properties, but almost nothing about Thief, nothing at all on their Twitter feed. I was wondering if they would be banned from Square's booths since they had leaked gameplay footage for DX:HR.
Starker on 15/6/2013 at 06:34
Quote Posted by Renzatic
2. According to some people here, Thief is anathema to "the masses". The big publishers fear it. It's apparently never made money, and has only been loved by those chosen, intelligent few.
...so why the hell would they revive the name with the hopes that it'll sell 50 billion copies? That just doesn't make sense. The usual argument is "oh, they're not creative or imaginative, so they dig up and destroy old established franchises in the hopes it'll sell on name alone". Which is equal nonsense because, according to them, "the masses" have apparently never heard of Thief, and the big publishers hate it, so...uh? Wuh?
Nobody says that only a few people played it or that it lost money. It isn't called a cult hit for nothing. The first game sold half a million copies by year 2000, which is not bad by any stretch of the imagination, but it's still a... er... a far cry from Half-Life.
jtr7 on 15/6/2013 at 06:41
Geee, Renz', why DO companies take old critically acclaimed or once-popular brands and revamp them for modern audiences they consider much dumber-yet-savvy?
We humans have been appalled at that common business tactic for decades, and questioning it all along. You weren't born yesterday, so I can't believe you don't recognize typical human behavior when it's swinging a blackjack at your face.
The masses find Thief boring or embarrassing and many of us have shared a common story that many people we talk to about our favorite game never heard of it, and finding someone who has and isn't disinterested, insultingly ignorant, or finds it a curiosity is rare. A lot of fans here find Thief boring or embarrassing, too. It sold as well as LGS expected, but critically acclaimed sleepers were their greatest product.
The publisher's decisions to emphasize fighting in the promos brought in more numbers, and I can't count how many anecdotes I've read since the early 2000s of people who tried to fight their way through a mission, thought the gameplay sucked, thought the combat was broken, were disgusted when they realized there were zombies and magic and shit, laughed at the graphics that were outdated when the games were released, and it continues to this day. There were other things that were interesting about the game, though, and while some people stopped playing for awhile and tried again later and "got" it, others realized what they were doing wrong in the moment and the game grew on them, in spite of the flaws.
Renzatic on 15/6/2013 at 06:54
Quote Posted by Starker
Nobody says that only a few people played it or that it lost money.
This is more what I'm talking about...
(
http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=141716&page=6&p=2192557#post2192557)
Quote Posted by jtr7
It ain't Thief if the masses are accustomed to it. The masses rejected and continue to reject Thief, and now these devs are taking Thief "back" to the masses LGS shunned. Revenge is sweet.
There you go. I wish I could find the one where he talks about publishers hating the game, but I can't remember the specific wording. Oh well.
Quote:
It isn't called a cult hit for nothing. The first game sold half a million copies by year 2000, which is not bad by any stretch of the imagination, but it's still a... er... a far cry from Half-Life.
Right. It sold quite well. Maybe not as well as Half-Life, and it certainly didn't bring in Call of Duty numbers, but it still sold many a copy to many a people.
The masses apparently like Thief.
Quote Posted by jtr7
Geee, Renz', why DO companies take old critically acclaimed or once-popular brands and revamp them for modern audiences they consider much dumber-yet-savvy?
We humans have been appalled at that common business tactic for decades, and questioning it all along. You weren't born yesterday, so I can't believe you don't recognize typical human behavior when it's swinging a blackjack at your face.
The masses find Thief boring or embarrassing and many of us have shared a common story that many people we talk to about our favorite game never heard of it, and finding someone who has and isn't disinterested, insultingly ignorant, or finds it a curiosity is rare. A lot of fans here find Thief boring or embarrassing, too. It sold as well as LGS expected, but critically acclaimed sleepers were their greatest product.
So if the masses find it boring, it isn't well known outside of certain small circles, and publishers hate it...
...then why are the resurrecting the series? It makes you wonder why they're bothering at all? I mean even they are dumbing down the series for
the masses, even then, it not worth the effort they're putting into it. By your own admission, it's not a popular brand, so if what you're saying is true, then the name alone doesn't have enough strength behind it to justify dumping millions upon millions of dollar into.
So why did EM use Thief? Because they can't think of anything new? If they're so uncreative, then why are they rebooting the entire series from scratch? Redoing all the lore? Reinterpreting all the characters? Wouldn't it be easier for them to pick up where TDS left off? Wouldn't it be better for them to use their to use their own ideas top to bottom, instead being foisted with all the excess baggage and expectations even an old, apparently unpopular series brings with it? That's a lot of time, talent, money, and effort wasted just to dumb down a minor cult classic in the vague hopes it'll sell more than 2 million copies on the strength of a brand
the masses could apparently give two quarters of a shit about.
Yeah. Your argument doesn't make sense.
Goldmoon Dawn on 15/6/2013 at 07:05
Quote Posted by Renzatic
EM is staffed with people both new to the industry and old hats alike. Plus they already have one difficult to make game under their belt as it is, which turned out far better than anyone expected it to.
I dont know how you run a business, but if you are making a game to sell, and your main selling point is that it is a tribute to a *classic* and *beloved* elitist game series with some serious historical roots, I would expect at the very least that each and every damn team member would have played through Dark Project and at least liked it before claiming to "give us old farts what we want" (which the very notion in and of itself makes me puke a little). Otherwise, arent they really just ignoring the soul of the game and taking it at face value and pretending to know what Thief is? And just to take our money?!?!
I dont think a single member on this new team has even played through Dark Project.
Desecration.
:ebil:
