ticky on 5/8/2022 at 23:38
It's almost a (wannabe purist) fashion to say that all three additions to the OMs are bad. This is not that simple. Thieves' Guild may lack excitement and can be repetitive in many ways, but at the same time, it pictures what it wants to picture in a perfect way. These are bands of thieves settled in two manors and the connecting sewers - one may deal with it.
As for the Mage Towers, I think that it is revolutionary new and with all the ambients and the different towers, it has a unique feel to it. Just see how different the atmosphere is throughout the different areas of the level. In the gardens, with the unique, a bit threatening ambients, one can feel that there is a lot about to happen. In the library, you will have an insight of the mages' thoughts and affairs. In the different towers you can also feel different atmospheres, and then always return to the 'common' world of the guards and servants, including the very uplifting journal of Captain Regalio.
Do I need to sell Song of the Caverns to anyone? It's Thief 1/Gold at its best. The design, layout and textures of the Opera House are simply marvellous. The way you go upwards from the old hermit through the basement with the tools of the Opera performances and the affairs of the staff until the fancy marble halls of the opera house - it's just a simply amazing journey that makes the best of T1/Gold resources.
This may be really a question of taste. But 20 years after, with less and less new fan missions per year, we should still appreciate every little bit of fun that Thief may offer.
Jason Moyer on 6/8/2022 at 09:56
The hatred for Thieves Guild always strikes me as odd. The worst thing about the mission is how obtuse certain things are, with some of the objectives essentially being pixel-hunting for secrets. But then everyone loves Thief II, which has a bunch of missions that I find annoying in the same ways as Thieves Guild, since parts of them also double down on pressing your face against every surface and object trying to figure out what the game wants you to do.
The dislike of Mages Tower I sort of get, but I've always loved that mission for being so different from the rest of the game in terms of the way you progress through it while being the only supernatural level that isn't focused on horror.
Song Of The Caverns is one of my favorite missions in the series, period.
zajazd on 6/8/2022 at 15:11
Quote Posted by Jason Moyer
The hatred for Thieves Guild always strikes me as odd.
Sheesh. Thieves' Guild is a maze. The purpose of a maze is to confuse you. Most people don't like being confused. As far as I know only masochists and maybe some autists like being confused.
klatremus on 6/8/2022 at 15:33
That logic doesnt hold up. The Sword, Haunted Cathedral and even Bonehoard have areas that are clearly maze like, but they are generally loved missions. Thieves Guild has very detailed maps to boot and most areas have multiple entries and exits. A maze is supposed to trick you not to find your way out. That is not what TG does.
zajazd on 6/8/2022 at 16:29
You are comparing possibly the worst level ever to possibly the best levels ever. Please just stop. It's ok to have a different opinion than the majority. I don't like some of the highest rated games like Finding Ciri and Dad of Boy.
marbleman on 6/8/2022 at 16:35
Nooooo, you don't get it, those are good mazes! It's only Thieves Guild that was created out of spite to prevent some players from fully enjoying Thief Gold! :sly:
<Username> on 7/8/2022 at 05:10
Quote Posted by Jason Moyer
The hatred for Thieves Guild always strikes me as odd. The worst thing about the mission is how obtuse certain things are, with some of the objectives essentially being pixel-hunting for secrets. But then everyone loves Thief II, which has a bunch of missions that I find annoying in the same ways as Thieves Guild, since parts of them also double down on pressing your face against every surface and object trying to figure out what the game wants you to do.
Interesting point. I am not sure which Thief 2 missions you mean. Can you describe which parts of which are missions are pixel-hunts for secrets?
zomfg1234 on 7/8/2022 at 08:04
You have to be really autistic to care this much about video game levels where you feel like bringing it up all the time. You don't like certain missions? Skip.
That being said, aside from Thieves' Guild the extra missions were solid and made that world richer in my view. One could argue that the pacing was too long because you had to travel to 4 different places instead of 2, but then again it also makes more sense to scatter all the talismans for maximum security. It's really the classical trope of collecting 4 powerful items and using them for something even more powerful. One complaint that I can get behind is adding mages to the lost city, it does take away a certain charm of loneliness and undiscovered territory.
Jason Moyer on 7/8/2022 at 13:10
Quote Posted by <Username>
Interesting point. I am not sure which Thief 2 missions you mean. Can you describe which parts of which are missions are pixel-hunts for secrets?
I guess I could go through the missions (I don't have the game memorized), but simply satisfying the loot objective in the very first mission was more annoying to me than anything in Thieves Guild the last time I did a T2 playthrough.
<Username> on 7/8/2022 at 19:09
Quote Posted by Jason Moyer
I guess I could go through the missions (I don't have the game memorized), but simply satisfying the loot objective in the very first mission was more annoying to me than anything in Thieves Guild the last time I did a T2 playthrough.
Running Interference? That is surprising. I always felt that was a short and easy mission, including the loot goal on Expert.