Renault on 1/10/2013 at 01:33
I think it was "dry meat," aka jerky.
Chade on 1/10/2013 at 02:16
Yeah, pretty sure they're not called med packs in the actual game, thankfully.
So, just got around to watching the video. Overall ... not all that much to say, really. Looks pretty much like thief. At no time was I really blown away, nor shaking my head in disgust.
I think in practice the biggest change to the game will be things like re-balancing how much noise different surfaces make. Probably the most concerning thing I saw in the video is that it looks like the player can keep up with the guard while crouch moving on tiles. That's potentially a big change for the worse in gameplay. (Of course there's no rule saying that tiles have to be the loudest texture anymore, but if not I'd like to know what materials are meant to be loud.)
The swoop and looking through key-holes seem like powerful abilities. I'm quite interested in seeing how they play in practice. I'm a little worried they'll be overpowered, but we'll see how it works. The painting/trap/see-through-cracks stuff was all very nice, although I could do with the cracks being a little less glaring. Pickpocketing continues to look good.
It's hard to tell from one playthrough which understandably goes straight for the jugular, but the map seems quite sizable, with plenty of routes available. It's easy to imagine ghosting the level.
I didn't really notice the shroud much. At one point around half-way through the demo I noticed it flashing, and realized that was the first time I'd payed any attention to it. Nice to see them demo with a toned down UI.
All individual parts of the level look gorgeous, but I do agree that overall it needs more variety. If all the levels are that consistent in tone, there will need to be substantial variations between levels. Otherwise it's just boring.
I'm all in favor of using Garrett's monologues as a tutorial device, but I need to be able to turn 90% of those comments off if they're still being used past the first mission. The presenter mentions you can turn them off, but it's not clear whether you can keep the odd comment for flavor while getting rid of all the tutorial stuff.
Final comment: it would have been nice if the presenter could have simply answered questions without trying to force insanely stupid jokes and/or fashion commentary into every answer. (The ghosting comment is obviously a joke Brethren.) It was quite off-putting.
EDIT: forgot to mention ... while the presenter was quite annoying, I did enjoy one part of the Q&A ... it was pretty damn nice to see so many thief fans in the audience! :D
Renault on 1/10/2013 at 02:54
Quote Posted by Chade
(The ghosting comment is obviously a joke Brethren.)
Tell me how it's so obvious. The guy never cracks a smile, or laughs. He doesn't qualify his comment with a "just kidding there" or "just a joke" when he does exactly that during other points in the presentation. He actually asks the guy in the audience who posed the question, "By ghosting do you mean going through walls and stuff?" and then waits for an answer. The dude is genuinely clueless. He figures it out in the end, but initially he doesn't get it at all.
I know it may seem asinine to us to not know what ghosting is, but my guess is this guy is just some EM suit who probably never played the original games before. He's also confused by the request to turn off Garrett's voice, which if you've played the original games, you know SR doesn't hold your hand quite the way the new VO was doing in the demo. "Why? Garrett's always done that." He's just faking his way through the presentation and there are some genuine fans in the audience who are calling him out on it.
Chade on 1/10/2013 at 03:07
Brethren, I wrote a transcript for you. He knows what it is. He's just making up dumb jokes with every answer. I have no idea why he's doing that, but it's consistent across all his answers ...
Quote Posted by TFA transcribed
Dale:
Can you actually ghost the whole thing, 'cause some of the stuff with the enemy placement makes it look like perhaps almost combat is somewhat mandatory in some places and you have to be detected in others.
Presenter:
No, yeah yeah, yeah I can see how you would notice that ... combat is not ... by ghosting [inaudible] like going through walls and stuff?
Dale:
No no no.
Presenter:
[Over the top of Dale] That'd be wierd. Yeah yeah yeah, I know what you mean.
Dale:
No combat, no detections.
Presenter:
Yeah yeah yeah, definately. I mean, you can go through the whole game without killing anybody. You can definitely use, there's, there's always a path ... [cut-off by Dale, not intended to be end of sentence]
Dale:
Not even any takedowns.
Presenter:
Yeah yeah, without doing any takedowns, yeah yeah, for sure. That's why we want to give the player multiple paths, and some of these paths include avoiding enemies altogether.
Random_Taffer on 1/10/2013 at 03:43
Quote Posted by Brethren
Has anyone else noticed that the "door opening" animations are flawed? Garrett turns the door knob or handle or whatever, releases it, the handle/knob goes right back to it's original position, and then he's still able to open the door. I know, I know, it's nitpicking, but it's really been bothering me because it just doesn't make real world sense it it look screwy.
Yeah, I noticed that too. It bothered me immediately in the first gameplay video. Pretty sure that door wouldn't budge.
Also, that loot glint is hideous! It's brighter than the sun.
Did anyone else notice Romano stumbling over the lines a bit?
"Sorry Northcrest, this might hurt a lull"
"I'll need to move fast to get back to city"
The guards yelling f*** just felt really out of place and unnatural.
sNeaksieGarrett on 1/10/2013 at 04:07
Quote Posted by Chade
I'm all in favor of using Garrett's monologues as a tutorial device, but I need to be able to turn 90% of those comments off if they're still being used past the first mission. The presenter mentions you can turn them off, but it's not clear whether you can keep the odd comment for flavor while getting rid of all the tutorial stuff.
Speaking of that, didn't "tutorial" VO get taken out on Hard and Expert in Thief 2? I can't recall.
Also, the person in the audience didn't seem to like Garrett speaking at all, but then again it's hard to really tell if he's just complaining about tutorial VO or Garrett "talking to himself" in general. Personally, I liked hearing Garrett talk in the old games. Makes you kind of connect with the character more I think.
Starker on 1/10/2013 at 06:14
Focusing only on the positives...
The map is the single best thing I've seen so far -- it's at least not as spoilery as to show the room you're in like in T2. There's definitely room for more variety with vague/inaccurate/no maps, though. Having to find additional maps to fill in details or find inconsistencies (such as information about what the rooms are/were used for and secret rooms) would be even better.
Still don't like how pickpocketing is implemented, but I think a delay could be a good addition to the pickpocketing mechanics.
Additional tools like the wire cutters or a crowbar could be nice in theory, but unfortunately they seem to be only a part of an animation.
redface on 1/10/2013 at 09:58
The map is okay. The automap that briefly shows onscreen is a terrible immersion breaker though.
Jenuall on 1/10/2013 at 11:09
Regarding the hand holding, "Garrett as tutorial", voice over, didn't LG actually record a whole load of extra audio with Russell for the first Thief that was along these lines? I may be wrong but isn't there a bunch of tutorial-like comments from Garrett that are never actually heard?
jay pettitt on 1/10/2013 at 12:26
Quote Posted by Starker
Focusing only on the positives...
I had to use my focus ability to spot positives too.
Anyway - some things that made me go grrrr:
Aiming with the bow - I remember aiming in T1 and T2. You had to use some judgement because the arrows had an arced trajectory. It takes a few goes to get the knack, but once mastered it felt very rewarding and satisfying to pull off a tricky shot. Psychology 101 tells us that mastering a skill is intrinsically rewarding and satisfying to human beings.
So it's utterly predictable that EM has removed this basic opportunity to actually feel like a master thief in a Thief game and replaced it with a computer assisted targeting system that does it for you.
Traps - gee, those pressure plates on the floor are subtle (not). At least we can use our focus ability to make them blue too. And look, Thank goodness you've equipped EMGarrett with yet another special animation to switch them off (coo so next gen)), otherwise we'd have to not bother and walk around them via the obvious route you've provided. (would it be contextually appropriate to jump over them? Who knows.)
Naff, naff naff.
If you're gonna have traps, make 'em at least a little challenging - like a trap. And if you want to introduce the concept of traps to the player - give us subtle, interesting clues. This ain't video gaming circa 1996.
Come one Eidos Montreal. You haven't even got the excuse that you're trying to make the game accessible to 12 year olds (because saying "
FUCK" a lot is arty right). This isn't going to be ready to ship in February.
