jay pettitt on 29/9/2013 at 15:57
I've not had chance to watch it yet, but may be of interest.
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Starts at about 7:00
MoroseTroll on 29/9/2013 at 17:15
I've already watched it. It's just about 15 minutes for the whole "The Heart of the Lion" mission:(.
sea on 29/9/2013 at 17:43
That guy's constant desperate prompting for applause was really hilarious. Seems like nobody attending the conference really gave a shit at all.
The tiny closed-in levels, the stupid shroud covering half the screen, swooping allowing you to get by guards without any effort, context-sensitive actions instead of freeform sandbox mechanics, stupid focus effects, lack of need to hide bodies, the hideous iPod UI, binary "on or off" light gem stealth system, objective pop-ups every 20 feet, brain-dead AI that goes completely blind when it's not in proximity to a light source, third-person cinematic takedowns, etc.
What happened to real-time sound propagation being a big deal in gameplay, anyway? Light and darkness was only a part of the stealth in the original, here it seems to be everything. Are modern gamers too dumb to handle more than one mechanic at a time? Or could they just not find a way to force a clumsy UI cue on-screen to tell people if they're making noise or not? I also liked how the demo made no effort to hide bodies and even left them in light on multiple occasions. "No one's gonna miss him", yeah, until a guard sees him, asshat. Or did you nerf patrols too so hiding bodies is unnecessary?
Despite being atmospheric and pretty in its own way (lots of good texture detail there), the game has zero personality. Green = darkness is also just plain ugly, and really exposes just how "gamey" some of the mechanics appear to have been implemented. Why does the game have to have this completely monotone art style? It's one step away from teal and orange Hollywood crap.
The one thing I did like was that there is strong evidence to suggest there are alternate paths and multiple ways to accomplish objectives - but that shouldn't be something that I'm relieved to see there.
The core of a Thief game is still kind of here, but it's painted over with a lot of unnecessary "next-gen" crap.
MoroseTroll on 29/9/2013 at 18:03
Quote Posted by sea
Are modern gamers too dumb to handle more than one mechanic at a time?
Well, not all of them but most of them. At least, almost all publishers think that :(.
Goldmoon Dawn on 29/9/2013 at 18:56
Im guessing this is just the same carefully crafted game play demo they use in them all.
15:40 - Garrett inherits focus mode in an accident at the beginning of the game.
18:00 - Countless dollars spent on staring at Garretts hand movement graphics, the very fruits of sacrificing free form game play.
Seriously guys, contextual design removes the magic of free form exploration. Swoop is in there so you can just keep up with a guard by scooting up next to him, because you are so bored you cant even be bothered to just run up to him, as is evidenced in the following...
Starting at 20:45, you will witness Garrett moving silently over tile. He is moving across tile flooring at a pace that in Dark Project would have alerted every guard within earshot! Sound is so crucial to the game play in Thief, and here it is reduced to rubble. He makes no sound walking on tile regardless of swoop/focus.
There is no difference between carpet and tile in this game, and yet we need silent swoop because silent walking/running lacks something. Is this how they are enhancing the stealth game play? I would much rather have a return of suspenseful tension created by the need to at the very least slow down over tile!
At 22:30 it finally gives in and shows the 570xp headshot. Funnily, right after that clip, the presenter talks proudly about how they respect the essence of Thief... with the maps. So "when you pick up a map and look at it, you will get the reference to the original Thief".
Again, when you strip away all the nonsense of old versus new, you are left with the same lackluster result...
The best mediocrity that money can buy.
Shinrazero on 29/9/2013 at 19:37
Well, the new gameplay shown looks to be some of the E3 presentation we didn't get to see. Some things I liked were when we was moving through the tight spaces, that was different. I also liked the lion puzzle and frame searching. Unfortunately, none of that really sways me from liking what I am seeing overall. The guards using f#$% in conversation, the excessive use of focus, and everything else just didn't do it for me. I really do not like Romano's quality, it seemed like he talked too much, especially on the lion puzzle, giving clues.
The bigger issue is that shadow seems to be everywhere and are not clearly defined like they were in the previous games. There was also a lack of attention to audio. I think he mentioned sound propagation once but I didn't notice any audio changes on the environment Garrett was traversing, notably the metal trap plates. I dunno, everything seemed really stiff.
Springheel on 29/9/2013 at 23:25
Cringe-worthy moment #1
17:00 -- Three guards are standing around a crate. Garrett throws a bottle at a guard's head, slows down time, gets his bow out and shoots the other guard in the head just as the bottle connects and KO's the first one, and then swoops forward, grabbing the last guard and clubbing him on the head before the "370 XP Headshot" has even disappeared.
Other distasteful details:
The screen still looks like someone's tablet used after applying sunscreen. Horribly blurry and distracting, although it seems to come and go.
Swooping on tile makes no noise.
Dialogue sounds very modern. "Do you want the Graven plucking out your eyes with rusty fucking knives? Then get back on your fucking patrol."
Orzi's in game delivery is horrible.
The presenter refered to "Med packs" for gaining health.
Presenter throws in another dismissive comment about the original games, "It's not 1999 anymore." Also (he could be joking, it's not clear) he asks whether the term "ghosting" means going through walls.
"You can upgrade the bow, the blackjack." So the bow upgrade is a reality now?
"[Garrett] is going to be a silent partner of Orion," because "as a human, he can recognize when something is not right." :rolleyes:
Interesting moments:
Garret can squeeze through thin areas, and apparently will "contextually" move objects out of the way if they're bocking him.
Garrett has wire cutters for disarming traps (presumably this is contextual, like the claw--you just frob the trap and the wirecutters are a decorative animation).
You get an ridiculously generous FOV when looking through keyholes.
What does "Hold R1 Observe" mean??
Mantling onto objects is super fast, Dishonored style.
Garrett peers through a small crack--keyhole style--to see how the internal mechanism of a safe works (cool). Orzi's narrative helpfully tells you, "If I could see inside, maybe I could figure out how this works" (lame).
Apparently you can turn those "captain obvious" voice-overs off. Phew.
And right near the end, this potential bombshell:
Audience question: "Will this be one of those games where you can sit a foot away from somone in the dark and they'll walk right past you?"
Presenter: "No, definitely not.... if you're in the dark and an enemy walks past you, you'll still be detected based on your proximity."
calmflow on 29/9/2013 at 23:37
I've been really looking forward to this but some of the violently obvious statements did irk me. "The markings are to worn to make out", Oh really?, hadn't noticed.
Wasn't this mission said to be about halfway through the game? If so that means Garrett is a regular parrot, Garrett wanna cracker?
Will be looking through the files when this comes out, in an effort to make some.....improvements.
Edit: Also, 20:00 (roughly) that guard has the same voice as the Overseers from Dishonored.
R Soul on 30/9/2013 at 00:14
In the opening missions of Thief 2 there are lots of instructions from Garrett, but it was like this: Normal - lots, Hard - some, Expert - one or two. If EM have any sense they'll do something similar.
Renault on 30/9/2013 at 00:21
This demo showed a lot more than we've seen previously, and in some spots was encouraging - mainly because the majority of it was actually done stealthily. There could be some fun to be had here, especially playing without Focus with the traps and lockpicking and whatnot. That aside, I took some notes while watching (mostly negative, unfortunately), sorry if I'm repeating what others have said:
-Seems like "The Shroud" effect has been lessened somewhat. Maybe we can turn it off completely?
-Hopefully we can get rid of that huge round reticule that shows up when you use the bow, I thought Garrett had a heat seeking missile there for a moment.
-All the flashing and whooshing (visual and sound wise) is really freaking annoying - hopefully we can turn that off.
-Focus - they keep telling us it's a finite thing, but every demo has the player using it extensively. I doubt you can realistic run out of your Focus power (not that I'll be using it).
-Frame Searching? WTF. I can't believe this is actually a named "thing."
-The "Captain Obvious" comment from the Q&A was great, but it's pretty sad that it's to the point where we want to turn off Garrett's voice overs. The new guy's voice is just really bad.
-The presenter really had no idea what ghosting was. Doh. "You mean like walking through walls? That would be kind of weird." Good lord.
-Man, those 3rd person perspective changes are really painful. Talk about immersion breaking. Whoosh. Loud Noise. Bam. It's like you're being ripped out of the game for a second and thrown into a CoD battle.
-Agree with MoroseTroll, if what we saw was considered "a level" we're all in trouble here. 10-15 minutes tops to finish. (Edit: went back and timed it, 14 minutes on the nose).
-All we've seen so far is maps, I'm hoping we'll get some actual readables to enhance the story.
-Watching Garrett walk on tile right behind a guard was depressing. I'd like to know how they can claim that different surfaces make different sounds when he's doing that. Just awful. If you can just swoop through all that, what's the point?
-The presenter was a bit of an a-hole to the audience - can EM really not find a good PR type person to do their demos?
