Nuth on 10/12/2013 at 01:50
This isn't the same Garrett. He wasn't taken in and trained by the Keepers, so he probably spent many years as a street thug. It's not surprising that he's adept at violence.
yxlplig on 10/12/2013 at 02:07
Quote Posted by Chade
Let's assume for the sake of the argument that you're right about the situation. We've got a guard who is suspicious, is searching for Garrett, and Garrett sneaks up behind him and knocks him out. So let's be clear about what we're complaining about:
from a gameplay pov this could be a situation straight out of thief 1. The only difference is the animation that plays when you knock the guard out.
Please pardon my pedantry, but the second bit of bold text is not correct. A guard in a hunting alert in Thief 1 cannot be knocked out unless they are an archer. I'll let you gentleman get back to what you were doing.
GodzillaX8 on 10/12/2013 at 02:09
Quote Posted by Nuth
This isn't the same Garrett. He wasn't taken in and trained by the Keepers, so he probably spent many years as a street thug. It's not surprising that he's adept at violence.
This.
When you reboot something, characters tend to change a bit.
Chade on 10/12/2013 at 02:50
Quote Posted by Springheel
I'm not sure we're going to see eye-to-eye on this. I'm not talking about the gameplay implications; in gameplay terms it doesn't matter if Garrett clubs someone, breaks their neck, or whispers a sleep spell into their ear. But each of those options changes the kind of
character Garrett is.
Sure, and I was mostly talking about the effect on Garrett's character (and the game's character) as well. I don't think you can separate character from gameplay, though, because the experience of playing the game is an enormous part of establishing that character. If I have to sneak around to knockout guards from behind, if I'm constantly afraid that they'll turn around at any moment, I'm never going to feel like I'm playing a macho warrior type, no matter how elaborate the takedown animations.
That said, I'm sure we won't end up seeing eye-to-eye. I think we had very similar disagreements regarding using the blackjack in combat, too.
Quote Posted by yxlplig
Please pardon my pedantry, but the second bit of bold text is not correct. A guard in a hunting alert in Thief 1 cannot be knocked out unless they are an archer. I'll let you gentleman get back to what you were doing.
What? I've done it plenty of times. Hell, only a few months ago in this very forum we were talking a lot about the well known trick of jumping up and down to make noise, leaning forward, and knocking out guards who come searching for you.
yxlplig on 10/12/2013 at 03:23
Quote Posted by Chade
What? I've done it plenty of times. Hell, only a few months ago in this very forum we were talking a lot about the well known trick of jumping up and down to make noise, leaning forward, and knocking out guards who come searching for you.
You're mostly right, if not completely right. I just tried it in Thieves Guild and Running Interference both on Expert, and I was able to knock out hunting guards. In Thief Gold it was even working by leaning right into their face. In Thief 2 they seemed to peer into the shadows more. If there really is no differences in detection behavior with the archers vs the swordsmen then I have no idea why I thought that.
EDIT: I played around with this recently and when guards are hunting they are much more perceptive of sound. So you can sneak up behind them and they will be immune to knockouts at the last second because they heard you. I just happen to have had better luck KOing hunting archers in the past, so that's why I thought that. Since I am ghosting 95% of the time I really don't know all the intricacies of the AI and probably shouldn't be correcting people on how they work. :cheeky:
Queue on 10/12/2013 at 03:44
I finally watched the full video, instead of just a bit here and a bit there. And I must say that I can't wait to play this sucker. To be honest, it looks moody and beautiful. Plus, any game that pays homage to (or blatantly rips off) Dishonored as hard as this does can't be all that bad.
It makes me wonder, though, if the developers forgot that Thief is the legendary game that set the standards.
Renzatic on 10/12/2013 at 04:44
Quote Posted by Queue
Plus, any game that pays homage to (or blatantly rips off) Dishonored as hard as this does can't be all that bad.
Considering Thief's been in development about as long as Dishonored, I think it's less a case of EM ripping off Arkane, and more that the two teams probably found themselves working on similar ideas around the same time. Think Borderlands and Rage. Two entirely different games with a shocking amount of similarities.
Mr. Tibbs on 10/12/2013 at 04:53
Quote Posted by Renzatic
Considering Thief's been in development about as long as Dishonored, I think it's less a case of EM ripping off Arkane, and more that the two teams probably found themselves working on similar ideas around the same time. Think Borderlands and Rage. Two entirely different games with a shocking amount of similarities.
That's a great way of putting it, but I still feel pretty bad for Eidos Montreal having to follow up Dishonored. The similarities are pretty superficial, but people were really excited about Dishonored and, aside from a few forums, folks seem to be pretty down on Thief. Thief's had a really rough time so far. Outside of being a showpiece for the new consoles in drought of releases, I can't see it making much of splash.
Binge Eating on 10/12/2013 at 12:44
Focus = Dark Vision
That is all.
TriangleTooth on 10/12/2013 at 12:54
I think in Thief 1 a guard who is hunting for you can still be KO'd but one who had seen you could only be KO'd from behind?
