Thief "Tradition": One scary mission. WHAT?

Beleg Cúthalion on 10/4/2013 at 09:13

Quote Posted by Myth

jtr7 while I normally agree with you, I'd have to say you're jumping the gun on this one.

I'd rather say "jtr7" is the superlative of "nitpicking". Dissecting details on a scale that has left mere immersion long behind. If we look at the three games we have, two of them feature explicit horror missions. That means 66% of "de frenchize" relies on horror as a delicacy of gameplay (not a foundation, but neither a minor detail), – among other things – in the way of single missions.

Quote Posted by jtr7

Where is anyone getting the idea that it's a Thief tradition to have one (or even two!) scary missions?

Well, maybe from these 66%. If I look at the first two games, swimmable water (not just deco) is included in every T1G mission except for (correct me if I'm wrong) Undercover and Escape, meaning 2/16. In T2, only half of the missions contain it, especially if we don't count the water tanks in Soulforge. If you count it together, roughly 62% of T1/2 missions contain swimmable water. By your logic, having swimmable water in Thief missions is less of a tradition than having two horror missions per game. And then ask yourself if it isn't borderline nonsense to dissect details like that if the overall perception of what the game is is not affected by it. :p

Myth on 10/4/2013 at 10:28

I don't want to talk percentages. There are the facts - the Hammer Haunt won an award for scariest monster in a PC game a while back. Everyone remembers the Cathedral and the Cradle. Everyone. When you talk about Thief level design in general, you're bound to touch on these two and Constantine's Mansion. I sincerely hope for a Cathedral like level in Thief 4. if we don't get it in the vanilla game, I hope for the tools so we can make our own.

Plague victims sound horrible though. I dun had enough o' that in Dishonored, and then some.

Kuuso on 10/4/2013 at 11:03

The world of Thief is scary and the games have contained plenty of scary elements. The cathedral and the cradle are landmarks, something you remember after playing the games. It is by no means surprising one could consider a level like these a tradition and there's nothing wrong with continuing that because it fits into Thief very well from both gameplay and atmospheric way. Jtr7 complaining about this "tradition" is nitpicking and useless, because the only thing that really matters is, if that scarier level in the new Thief works and is not a shoehorned thing that does not relate to the rest of the game.

FenrisUlf on 10/4/2013 at 12:03

Totally agree with the original poster about this and lots of things others have said. For me its really what attracted me to the game...the creepiness and scariness. I really pissed myself falling into the hexagon room of Bonehoard and have the devil on the wall echo in my head "Stay away from my face thief....or you'll be sorry..." I literally stared at the screen terrified not knowing what the f*** just said that nor what to do. (Clearly if I ever meet a monster in real life I am toast and will be eaten).

It's moments. THe whole bonehoard was just fascinating with creeps and isolation and feelings and seeing each of your thief friends dead just messes with your head. THe fire demon in gold holy crap I'm still scared of him.

My other favorite moment is indeed in Return to the Cathedral when I first got in. I went around to the side getting freaked out by the sound effects and entered the middle of the room. At this point I still thought the haunts were simply Hammerites on guard as I just saw them from a distance before. I cockily cocked an arrow and grinned preparing to snipe as one crossed walked past in the distance. And then I froze as he turned toward me and his face was a skull. Totally froze.... OMFG.
He just chopped me up.

Really That one zombie in Cragscleft. It's amazing how much that thing freaked me out and made things difficult. Those simple jumped up the rocks became really hard when I'm trying to avoid that thing and really didn't know what the hell that thing was going to do. It's the fear of the unknown stuff totally.

Thief 2 I sorely missed glorious freakouts like that. I really liked the eyeflowers and the witch-trees but those areas were so short. Trail of Blood level really gave me shivers up my spine all the way through.

And the Cradle...OMG. I literally jumped out of my chair as my friend that was showing me the level laughed his ass off at me.

I think only the early silent hills have risen to this level of horror.

Incidently I remember reading something way back about the creation of TDP that it was going to be like a Dark Camelot. All horrory medeival world and then they just kept refining the idea. So the whole game really had its roots in horror not just one level.

Dia on 10/4/2013 at 12:46

Quote Posted by jtr7

I really hope the scary doesn't come in the form of plague victim hordes.

I agree. The screenshot I saw of those plague victims (concept art?) made me feel sad and repulsed at the same time. The thought of being chased by a person who's not in their right mind because of a disease from which they're suffering just makes me feel queasy - and not in a scary way at all. At least zombies were dead and no longer suffering, and haunts were .... well.... just plain nasty.

Nuth on 10/4/2013 at 12:52

Yeah, that "Stay away from my face, thief" moment really got me, too. I'm watching an on-going Let's Play on youtube done by a guy who is getting pretty freaked out by the game. In the latest episode, he came within a couple of steps of going far enough that I think he would have been enticed to drop down in there, but he missed it. (The youtuber is Regtrov, in case anyone is interested in watching a blind playthrough)

Hamadriyad on 10/4/2013 at 13:04

I agree with Thief is not limited with 1 horror mission but horror is everywhere in Thief universe, one way or another.
In TMA, we don't have supernatural elements as much as in TDP, but those robots, watchers and servants are really scary. You know they are mechanical, but they feel alive. And it is just creepy, more than zombies.

FenrisUlf on 11/4/2013 at 00:29

Quote Posted by Hamadriyad

tickticktick....BE WARNED....TICKTICKTICK......THERE IS SOMETHING THERE....tickticktick....I DO NOT KNOW....tickticktick...I DO NOT KNOW....

jtr7 on 11/4/2013 at 00:37

UNDEAD PER MISSION, whether seen or not, not taking Difficulty Levels and changes into account:

Thief: The Dark Project / Thief Gold:

TRAI: None.
BAFF: None.
CRAG: 10 Male Zombies (3 with bug halos).
BONE: 1 Hammer Haunt, 3 Hammer Zombies, 27 Male Zombies.
ASSN: None.
THVG: None.
SWRD: None--Though Viktoria's disembodied laughing and the voices of her hungry "children" asking for food have a haunting effect.
HAUN: 4 Apparitions, 5 Hammer Haunts, 13 Male Zombies.
MAGE: None.
LOST: None.
SONG: None.
UNDR: None.
RTRN: 4 Apparitions, 9 Hammer Haunts, 1 Ghost, 23 Male Zombies, 1 disembodied voice of Renault.
ESCP: None.
BEDF: None.
MAWC: None.

Thief II: The Metal Age

RUNN: None.
SHIP: None.
FRAM: 1 Phantom Hammer Haunt.
BUSH: None.
EAVS: 2 Hammer Haunts.
BANK: None.
BLKM: 1 Hammer Haunt, 1 [Dormant] Female Zombie.
COUR: 3 Zombies (1 Fresh Male, 1 Female, 1 Male).
BLUD: 13 Phantoms (3 Pagan children, 1 Mechanist Male, 1 Mechanist Priest, 1 Mechanist Priestess, 3 Pagan Females, 4 Pagan Males)
LIFE: 2 Zombies (1 Male, 1 Female)
CARG: 1 Apparition.
KDNP: None.
CASE: 1 Ghost, 1 Apparition.
MASK: 1 Ghost, 1 Apparition.
SABO: None.

Thief: Deadly Shadows

CASH: None.
BDLN: None.
EDGR: 3 Male Pagan Zombies.
SANC: None.
SUNK: None.
MOIR: None.
KLTM: None.
BETR: None.
CRAD: 9 Puppets, 10 Staff (1 sprints as a jump scare, never to be seen again), 1 Ghost--and the Cradle itself is not Undead, but is a creepy sentient.
BLAK: None.
GALE: 8 Male Zombies.
KEEP: None.
IRON: Depends on player action/inaction, but 13 Male Zombies are placed in the map ready to go; 6 Hammer Haunts.
PAVE: None.
LAIR: None.

Dia on 11/4/2013 at 00:42

Man, I hated those puppets more than I hated zombies.