jtr7 on 10/4/2013 at 04:06

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Where is anyone getting the idea that it's a Thief tradition to have one (or even two!) scary missions?


Scariness is a Thief tradition, not one or so scary missions per title dedicated to scaring the player.

Many missions have scary elements, some have none, and some have a lot. Some are just creepy bu not scary, but that also gets into subjectivity, so those aren't the main point.

Having one corner of a map, or one frightful (not just creepy) surprise, one type of AI only found in a single area in the whole map, doesn't make it a scary map, and being able to complete the mission objectives and accidentally never notice those AIs, really makes it a map not dedicated to the scares.

Thief II: The Metal Age had no dedicated scary mission. There were scary AIs in specific gamespaces, in small portions of whole maps, and except on higher difficulties, almost none of them were important to deal with for completing missions.

Thief: The Dark Project and Thief Gold had, variously and subjectively scary missions that didn't just have single sections, the Bonehoard, the two missions in the sealed Old Quarter, the Lost City (especially TDP's for me, though I'd like the Craymen and Burricks to have water to explain them better), Escape!, Strange Bedfellows, and The Maw of Chaos, with Return to the Cathedral getting top pick for scariest by the majority. Cragscleft, while not scary overall, seared into people with one zombie, nevermind the rest of them and the Huge Spider. That one zombie put many players off completely, or forced them to put down the controller and wait a few years.

Thief: Deadly Shadows had the whole Fort Ironwood Cemetery if the player didn't stop the Necromancer in various ways first and leave just the Haunts inside the lower levels of the building, the tiny Abysmal Gale, The Shalebridge Cradle, and then the Statues and Enforcers that were sprinkled about the maps in later game Days, while the Rat Beasts and Kurshok and Treebeasts didn't seem to scare most players and were mocked more than the previous titles Beasts. TDS had the specific isolated undead, like the pagan zombies in St. Edgar's factory. And then there is Gamall during the end game, but people don't treat her as scary much. There were more scary missions in TDS than in TMA by far, but take away the big scaries and you still have those little gamespaces with scary AIs here and there.


The scares should go from zero to max in all missions, but mainly ACT II and ACT III, with hints and challenges that prepare the player in ACT I, enhanced through to the end game, to really start to feel like a Thief game set in The City overall, with missions that will standout. But each mission should be full of tension and vulnerability and mastery of shadows and observation and listening, and even if Garrett isn't receiving creepiness from the surroundings, he himself is really creepy, so the narrative and design should be constantly playing with how wrong or necessary it is for him to be where he is, and the environs and beings within should not like him there to varying degrees.

Vigo on 10/4/2013 at 04:39

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Agreed. For me the fear in the cathedral and the cloister in Return to the Cathedral really overshadowed the creepy vibes of The Haunted Cathedral and Strange Bedfellows. As for the Metal Age, those surprise treebeasts scared the utter shit out of me, so it's understandable to me that the series might get that sort of reputation.

Nuth on 10/4/2013 at 05:28

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I've always been creeped out by the thought that the Mechanist creations might not be purely mechanical. We know Karras had no qualms about using people as raw material to serve his ends.

Myth on 10/4/2013 at 07:09

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jtr7 while I normally agree with you, I'd have to say you're jumping the gun on this one.

Question from hardcore thief fan at Eurogamer: Will we have something to match Return to the Cathedral and Robbing The Cradle in the new Thief? (Question directly following the "Not magical, but mystical" explanation by the dev)
Answer: We know these missions were iconic. Look, guys, we did our homework and we know what makes a good Thief game. Trust us *wink wink*

All I got from that was: yes, we are making one level that will stand out above the rest in terms of how scared you will be.

That doesn't mean we wont get other scary bits here and there. Though, with the removal of zombies and haunts, you can't just plop the family crypt below the mansion and call it a day, they'd have to get creative.

The primary reason why zombies scared me in my earlier days was the way they were presented. You got a good 15-20 minutes of sneaking (back in the day I didn't have such an immaculate knowledge of just how far I can push it with the guard's hearing/seeing and POV and I didn't knock them out on the go. I had to stalk and save often.), and all the darkness, grey cobbles, dark windows, empty streets and the creepy sound added by Eric Brosius meant you were on edge.

Then suddenly a zombie comes out of nowhere! You can't knock it out - that's a stark difference from the guards. It makes nasty sounds and it likes the dark.

Nuth on 10/4/2013 at 08:41

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Agreed. "Trail of Blood" doesn't qualify as a scary mission. In fact the first time I played it, I didn't trigger any treebeasts and had to go back and play through it again just to see what the fuss was about. For me the scariest thing about that mission was the cut scene at the end--you knew something bad was about to happen then LGS threw in another twist and something bad didn't actually happen.