Wizd3m on 1/4/2025 at 16:48
Hey guys,
I was curious to try Lossless Scaling (v3.1.0.2), specifically the frame generation feature, with the Thief series to see if I could overcome the 90fps (I think?) physics-related limit. I'm running a high refresh rate monitor, and while 90fps is playable, it's definitely not as smooth as I'd like.
Just in case anyone else was curious, or can recommend better settings, here's what seems to work for me.
Frame Generation
Type: LSFG 3.0
Mode: Adaptive
Target: 159
Notes
No matter what I tried, Fixed mode resulted in a choppy experience when moving the camera, while Adaptive gave me the smoothness I was expecting (not perfect, but close)
I set the target to 159 because my monitor's refresh rate is 160hz
In Nvidia Inspector, I also have a global FPS cap of 160 fps
in cam_ext.cfg, I set the game to run in borderless window mode (though it seemed to work fine in Full Screen), and a framerate_cap of 90 fps
Rendering
Sync Mode: Default
Max Frame Latency: 1
G-sync support: Enabled
Notes
I set the Max Frame Latency to 1, but really I didn't see much of a difference between 1 or the default 3
Capture
Capture API: WGC
Queue Target: 1
Notes
I used WGC because DXGI wouldn't work with my RTX HDR settings for Thief Gold in Nvidia Inspector; using WGC, and RTX HDR enabled for the Lossless Scaling app as opposed to Thief Gold in Nvidia Inspector, turning on Lossless Scaling in game also enabled RTX HDR and got me the results I wanted
Please let me know if you've had any success with getting a smoother experience in Thief using Lossless Scaling, and if so, what settings do you recommend?
FenPhoenix on 1/4/2025 at 18:39
You can run at any framerate as long as you enable "phys_freq 60" in cam_ext.cfg. I run at 120 and don't have any physics problems.
Wizd3m on 1/4/2025 at 19:08
Quote Posted by FenPhoenix
You can run at any framerate as long as you enable "phys_freq 60" in cam_ext.cfg. I run at 120 and don't have any physics problems.
Hey Fen!
Small sidenote, just started using AngelLoader a few days ago, sweet app!
Anyway, some time ago, I had tried setting the framerate cap to 160 and enabling "phys_freq 60" as you suggested, but the result was really choppy when looking around. Maybe I did something wrong, or maybe I needed to set the right vsync_mode in cam_ext.cfg, but I just couldn't get it to work smoothly no matter what settings I had played with.
If that's working smoothly for you, mind sharing if there's maybe something else in cam_ext.cfg that I need to turn on or off?
Iazu on 5/4/2025 at 03:11
The only thing in what you're doing that I would eliminate is the 160 cap, since LS won't go above what you set so it's kind of redundant.
Also, and this really only goes for large FMS since they're the only ones that have occasional performance problems, make sure you're hitting your base framerate without LS consistently. If your base framerate fluctuates then you'll get a little choppiness even though LS compensates.
One other thing I've found is watch out for darker FMs like The Black Parade. By dark I mean much darker in general than the stock campaigns. LS does not like the dark, I was getting some weird jittery artifacting in some areas in The Black Parade. I ended up raising the gamma a little in game until it went away then compensating by lowering my TV/monitor's brightness.
I'm also setting the "low latency" options in the Nvidia driver to Ultra. Not entirely sure if that's doing anything but it doesn't seem to hurt.
I am using a fairly different setup than you are though. I'm using:
* (
https://github.com/EndlesslyFlowering/dxvk) The DXVK HDR mod to convert to Vulkan
* (
https://www.special-k.info) SpecialK to adjust the HDR settings and framecap to 60 (My TV is 120hz)
and it works well after some (well, more than some) tweaking!
EDIT: Oh, and by using the DXVK and SpecialK combo, I'm able to use the "DXGI" option in LS instead of WGC. Though I'm not sure if one is better than the other.
Wizd3m on 8/4/2025 at 02:50
Hey Iazu,
Thanks so much for the advice!
You're right about the 160 cap. I set it globally to avoid the GPU going crazy in game menus in general, not specifically for Thief, and I assume it doesn't hurt Thief either. But I agree, redundant in this case.
Noted about the large FMs. Shouldn't be a problem with a higher end 40 series card, but I'll keep an eye out.
Noted about the darkness too, but I'm still not quite sure what to think about RTX HDR in this game. It does tend to make some spots a little too dark in my opinion, but it does add to the image overall...I think. Will need to play more missions to see if I really like it or not. Without it, I think I can also run DXGI, but like you, I don't know if it makes a difference.
Just curious, any reason why you decided to go with the SpecialK/HDR mod combo over RTX HDR? I don't actually own a very good HDR monitor, but wanted to play with it a bit and enabling RTX HDR just seemed easier in the Nvidia Inspector tool. I'm using it for System Shock Remake too, and it looks great. I wonder if the DXVK/SpecialK setup would give a noticeably better result with Thief.
Iazu on 8/4/2025 at 05:59
I mainly chose SpecialK because I'd been using it before RTX HDR became a thing. Plus I like how configurable it is and all it's other features. Also, I'm still running Windows 10 and I know at least initially RTX HDR only worked on 11, not sure if that's changed.
I also went with the DXVK HDR mod because I was already using normal DXVK for Thief (SpecialK can't do it's HDR thing on straight DX9 which Thief is) and figured I give it a try once I heard about it. It worked so I just kept using it. TBH I'm not really sure if it's giving me any benefit over regular DXVK, but it also doesn't seem to hurt so why not!
About the framecap. Main reason I brought it up is because you mentioned it wasn't quite as smooth as you'd like. Maybe disabling the 160 cap could help. I've definitely seen framecaps do things like add weird stuttering depending on the circumstance. I've gotten different results in some games even depending on *what* I use to cap, RTSS, SpecialK, Nvidia, or even the game's own framecap.
As far as framedips go, unfortunately video cards make little difference in demanding FMS. I'm not sure if the engine is CPU bound (it is a 32 bit application after all, so multiple cores don't benefit it) or if it's just a problem inherent with the engine itself. I've got a 4080 Super and there are parts of The Black Parade that dip fairly low. The worst I've seen was a T2 FM called "Feast of Pilgrims". There are a couple spots in that one that drop my fps to the 30s even though my card isn't even hitting 50% utilization. Those situations are why I ended up trying LS. Funnily enough, LS didn't work well with either T1 or T2 until the patch back in January. Before that I would get that jittery artifacting all over the place unless I cranked the gamma to a state that wasn't really fit for Thief.
Here's some screens of what mine looks like in game. These aren't HDR screenshots but I could take a few if you want (jxr files I think they're called) since SpecialK can take them. Note in the last screenshot I had been playing with the gamma a little so it looks a little brighter/washed out.
(
https://i.imgur.com/befb5k2.jpeg)
(
https://i.imgur.com/pCBEmNc.jpeg)
(
https://i.imgur.com/PeCcCSU.jpeg)
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https://i.imgur.com/Ar2ZQTA.jpeg)
Wizd3m on 9/4/2025 at 01:51
Found your shots in another thread, they're from Winds of Misfortune, correct? I'd be curious to see what you HDR shots of the city look like. I tried the FM with RTX HDR and things get noticeably darker. Possibly too dark, though I've yet to see any obvious artifacts with Lossless Scaling enabled. I tried taking some shots for you but the HDR effect is missing. if you ever do give RTX HDR a shot, I'd love to hear your thoughts on how it compares. Or I might just give SpecialK a try myself.
EDIT: Actually, I tried turning off HDR in Windows 11 (been running it long enough that I forgot what no HDR even looks like), and the city in Winds of Misfortune is indeed dark. Turning on HDR in Windows 11 just makes the whole unnaturally bright and I forgot that it's not how Thief actually looks. Long story short, RTX HDR does make things a bit darker in game than I was used to before using HDR in Thief and Windows, but the lights do stand out more, so overall the result is positive.
Iazu on 9/4/2025 at 03:20
The shots are from The Black Parade and Winds of Misfortune but I can't remember which is which, lol.
As far as the artifacting goes, I really only saw it in especially dark areas. Some areas in "The Brand" mission for The Black Parade was where I tested it.
If you do decide to go the SpecialK route, you'll have to use DXVK or DGVoodoo2 to convert the game to something other than DX9. Standard DXVK is the easier of the two since you really just have to plop the d3d9.dll into the folder with Thief's exe and you should be good to go. There's a bunch of stuff you *can* configure via the dxvk.conf configuration file but to just test it out it's not necessary.
Also, SpecialK does have a performance overhead though it shouldn't be an issue with Thief. Generally adds around 5-10% on GPU utilization for me. Though I think RTX HDR has a performance impact as well IIRC.
EDIT: I'll take some HDR screens tomorrow night after work and post them here. The ones SK takes come out as JXR files and oddly enough the only program I have that opens them correctly seems to be windows built in photo viewer, lol. XNView (the viewer I usually use) does *not* like them.
Wizd3m on 12/4/2025 at 14:18
Thank you Iazu,
The light sources in your photos are certainly brighter than what I see, but then again so is your environment in general. For better or worse, the HDR effect in my game seems much more subdued, if that makes sense. The overall environment appears a bit darker, and the light sources appear a bit brighter, at least when comparing with your Bafford image. Actually, mine reminds me of the HDR effect Reshade offers. I'll do some more comparisons this weekend with the other missions in your shots. Anyway, thanks again Iazu :)
