Thief 4 will be awesome because... - by jay pettitt
jay pettitt on 7/3/2013 at 14:17
Yeah, yeah yeah, it's an industry that churns out tedious, formulaic, unimaginative, derivative, artless dross for breakfast, lunch and tea. And maybe there's not much hope. But every once in a while there are surprises. That's why we're here right.
So let's say what bits we like and not drown them out by the (understandable) moans and worries.
First - I'm really pleased that the background narrative is one of social inequality. It's kinda crucial, I think, that Garrett's oft' dubious antics take place amongst the context of wider evils for the player to get that all important affinity with Mr G. Plus it's a theme that interests me.
Also the Apothecary. It looks gorgeous. I want to be there and rifle through things I shouldn't.
Inline Image:
http://darkfate.org/view/simple/files/images/screenshots/thief4/thief_002.jpgjtr7 on 7/3/2013 at 14:40
The detailed world looks really nice, and seems to be what we were hoping TDS would aspire to be, but with more computing power behind it. The coloured lighting is better. The valuable-looking loot is nice. Garrett's hands look better than most of the previous media-leaks showed or suggested. There's not much to go by that isn't entirely guessing. Until we see real world screenshots, where the actual polycount is dialed in for performance, I can only say that the images we have show polycount doesn't need to be higher than that. I've said in other threads that I've been hoping that corruption at the Baron's level, as Nobility, would be the next chapter in a sequel, so I'm glad they've taken it in that direction for a start.
SubJeff on 7/3/2013 at 14:47
The screenshots look pretty lush to me. I know people say it looks like Dishonored but I think it has a much more gritty, dark feel to it. I especially like the image on the official site: (
http://www.thiefgame.com/)
Given the job done on DXHR I think this has a real chance of being a worthy take on the stealth genre. If they really are looking to the older games and sticking to the core movement and stealth mechanic... it could be awesome.
Renault on 7/3/2013 at 15:42
There's a lot of stuff I saw in the GI article which I thought sounded really promising:
First Person - Everything we've seen so far is in first-person, with no mention of third-person except for the part about how transitions between 1st and 3rd were making people sick. All signs point to the game being 100% FP.
Open gameplay - EM talks about having us play the game "as we see fit." Multiple entrances/exits, multiple solutions to each scenario, not a lot of scripting, etc. Seems like a very similar attitude to what we've seen in recent titles like DXHR and Dishonored.
Classic Thief - With references to lockpicking, pickpocketing, conversatations, readables, fences, blackjack/bow, specialty arrows, EM isn't veering too far from classic Thief elements. Even the grappling claw is much closer to rope arrows than the climbing gloves were.
Sophisticated AI - With talk of "guards who are aware of the level design" and the "topography of the level," some real challenges could be presented. I like the part too about "different NPCs will look for Garrett in different ways." Should keep G on his toes.
I know some people have been critical of some of the mentions of combat, but I don't really see it that differently than the previous Thief games. They say "you can play aggressively if you want, but it won't be easy." Part of TDP's tutorial teaches you how to sword fight, and the intro cinematic to T1 and T2 shows Garrett picking off enemies with a bow. Even the TDM tutorial level has an area dedicated to fighting. Combat has always been present in the Thief games as an option - just not the best option. The same thing applies here. "We want you to play as a Thief, but don't want to force you to play as a Thief."
jtr7 on 7/3/2013 at 16:58
No one's anti-Thief combat in the current discussions, though I may have overlooked a staunch Ghoster's post. I, personally, am against added combat and violence on top of what was there. No one's denying the violence in old Thief, but there is violence in the old promos that isn't anywhere in-game, and violence in the Intros, unreproducable or hardly possible in-game, as well as the emphasis for TDP that combat against multiple foes is gonna kill Garrett. There are creatures, attacks, and moves not found in the games.
Anyway, yeah, I like that they have chosen to show 1st-person and no stabby splash images. It bodes well and makes Marketing look more in tune with the spirit of Thief they promise. But the other things are still guesswork until we see more. Questions we had about key and critical points for DX:HR weren't answered until weeks and days before it was released, which made it look like they expected pre-orders to get canceled, even if that wasn't their reasoning.
chk772 on 7/3/2013 at 18:04
Quote Posted by jtr7
The detailed world looks really nice, and seems to be what we were hoping TDS would aspire to be, but with more computing power behind it.
Sorry, don't rly browsed these forums v often, but what do ppl think was wrong with the world in TDS? Actually, being also a fan of Thief 1 & 2 (even though i think a few levels in those were pretty horrible), i found DS to be one of the most complete, satisfying gaming experiences i ever encountered. I mean, i really loved it from beginning to the end, the atmosphere, the world, gameplay, control, everything top notch for me. I mostly get a bit bored after like 15 hours of playing something, but DS kept me thrilled until the end.
I often feel like people dislike the slightest change about something which has such cult and addiction potential like the Thief series, maybe that's why people disliked DS and now hate Thief 4? I see some more potential for part 4 to fail though than on DS, some announced things sound a bit weird indeed, but too early to judge.
What i would've liked would be to go open world for the new Thief. Like you can explore the whole city yourself, find quests/missions, go to your fence to sell things, go to the thief store to pick up equipment, stuff like that. :) Maybe add a few RPG elements like some achievement system, and finally a proper lock picking system, the one in Fallout 3 was pretty good (looking at the screenshots it seemslike they've implemented something like that though).
Mobiler Beitrag
jtr7 on 7/3/2013 at 18:17
The complete absence of things well liked, and the difficult and greatly limited movement in comparison to the older titles are two subjective and personal things. These were not small changes for those who found it too frustrating for them, or a bit too disappointing. You likely had played many games that used movements and 3rd-person camera and didn't even notice that anything was different. But make a drama of it if you wish. There are several long threads about why people loved, or hated, or just kinda didn't like, or loved a lot but struggled with something, in TDS versus the older titles... Both sides have never related to each other, and disliking one change is not "hatred" for the whole game. There are many great things about TDS, I just struggle to play it comfortably. The list of gripes from various individuals is rather long. There are things that you have no problem with that another person is stymied by and has no choice in the matter. It has to do with how people are wired. Some people are also compulsive game buyers, and that needs to be kept out of certain arguments, hahahaha!
Thief 4 will be awesome even if it never was about a Thief, or Garrett, or The City.
chk772 on 7/3/2013 at 18:26
Think you got that wrong man, i don't want to make drama out of it, just saying that TDS was a real Thief for me, but i surely can understand and tolerate when ppl think it isn't so. :)
You'll have to admit though that ppl also can be pretty stubborn and intolerant when it comes to changes to their "thing". And imo the Thief series gotta move on. A new game which is like Thief 1, to take that example, will neither sell well, nor will it be original in any way.
Edit: Saying that i sincerely hope that they'll be able to conserve the excellent ambient soundtrack of the previous titles. As someone on these forums already wrote, it has a huge impact on the atmosphere.
Mobiler Beitrag
jtr7 on 7/3/2013 at 18:49
I'm referring to your word use. Hate, intolerant, cult, stubborn, slightest change, addiction... To invoke those words is to claim drama where there isn't anything nearing what those words imply in the context given.
We "haters" want massive changes and growth and potential met in Thief, whether through the fan community or officially. There is no desire to hold it all back in one engine, except where a different engine doesn't capture that something that made the other engine resonate with them. If a new engine or design doesn't have that special something or things that made them a fan to begin with, then it may as well be another title altogether, good or bad. Thief 4 can be the greatest game ever made, but it won't have many special somethings that could have been captured in any engine, on any platform, but has not yet, so we can only hope it will have new things (not more of what already exists in many other titles that already are a turn-off) that create a new addiction. I personally want major industry change, not back to what was, but leaping forward from it in a new branch of gaming. It's only been borrowed from piecemeal, never collected all into one place, with Dishonored having more of those things in one new package than most. You have to realize that a lot of us can not work in harmony with several industry standards of controllers, game design, and marketing decisions. We have no choice. What we hate is being left out again and again, and we can't even vote with our wallets and start a trend. Thief brought in an above-average number of intelligent and vocal female gamers, and I hope Thief 4 appeals to them, too, even though the dev teams have far smaller percentage of females working on it than LGS did, in significant roles.
Thief 4 will have a different sound, and it will likely be pretty decent, but as you say, it'll be change you have to deal with if you don't. Of the previous game's sound, Paul Weir said, "If it ain't broke". He created the world's sounds from scratch, so most of the game won't use stuff from public domain sound FX libraries, like the other games.
chk772 on 7/3/2013 at 19:06
Quote Posted by jtr7
You have to realize that a lot of us can not work in harmony with several industry standards of controllers, game design, and marketing decisions. We have no choice. What we hate is being left out again and again, and we can't even vote with our wallets and start a trend.
Well, you didn't like what i said before, and you'll certainly not like this: I think there is a bit of a flaw in your thinking in that regard. I believe you are thinking that you and this community has a bigger competence in judging what is good for the continuation of this series than the publisher of the game has. After all it is the publisher though that pays the dev teams for their work, and it if it not a success, they will have a problem. Like it or not, but that is the reality. And that could mean that the game is gonna be something entirely different than what you would expect it to be. After all, it still wears the "Thief" title though, so the possibility is big that they not only want to appeal to the new generation of gamers (they will largely be appealing to them though, after all this community of "old gamers" is not nearly as big as is the number of new gamers, or new customers, better said), but also to the people who used to play this game. After all it is all business as like it is everywhere.
