GodzillaX8 on 14/2/2014 at 07:32
Quote Posted by NuEffect
Do you think we can talk about old school mode now?
I think that was doomed by the fact that Vae was the first to reply to the thread.
skacky on 14/2/2014 at 07:34
Quote Posted by GodzillaX8
Yeah, if we want to talk about terrible AI, the first two games are the poster boy examples of that.
The AI in T1/2 sure has its flaws but you would expect developers to have improved on it quite a lot by now, which doesn't really seem to be the case according to various previews. Also, the games were released in 1998 and 2000.
FatSpy on 14/2/2014 at 08:02
Quote Posted by Jason Moyer
Instantly knowing where you are? Like how they make a beeline directly for you in the first 2 games even after you've broken line of sight and found a new shadow to hide in?
Honestly it's better that way because if you could just hide in a random shadow the second you break line of sight it'd be way to easy too escape. If it's going to be that way in T4 then, unless theres something to compensate, I can easily say the AI is worse for gameplay reasons.
I mean like how in stalker if you snipe a guy everyone instantly knows where you are despite being a half a mile away in nighttime. I highly doubt it'll have that though, I was just saying an example of worse AI. It'll most likely be the easy to lose, easy to sneak past, badly positioned type.
Fearless Benny on 14/2/2014 at 08:08
am i the only one who manually saved or used quicksave in between missions? but this "only save on the start of the chapter" looks like a nice idea, I'm going to play thief 1 and 2 only like this from now on!
this "old school mode" doesn't sound at all like Thief. In nearly every stealth game, if you turn off certain features, you will get this "old school thief" experience. This was just a terrible attempt to bring old fans to play the game.
SubJeff on 14/2/2014 at 08:11
Deus Ex did that. Silenced snipe and everyone knows where you are.
Thief's ai needn't have been that way FatSpy. There are ways around that.
With regards to Old school mode - I find the arrow setting odd as a. blunt arrows aren't in any other Thief and b. I'm sure I've seen gas or choke arrows, both of which are in other Thief games (moss in T3 could choke).
Raven on 14/2/2014 at 11:11
That actually looks pretty good :)
Still 'tis going to be weird not being able to jump on command...
Maybe a long time in the future the source code will be released, and someone will code jumping and swimming into the game, err, like they did with Doom :S. Maybe that is it, "Thief - So old school you can't jump!" now put that on a t-shirt!
Also if you turn off all hud elements, I wonder how easy it will be able to tell what can and can not use the rope arrow? Again, 1998, if it was textured as wood, the arrow would stick in it (it was also disappointing in thief 2 the vine arrow only seemed to stick to specific places, but I may have just been using it wrong).
I was impressed a couple of days ago while briefly having loaded up skyrim agan (only 8 hours in I think) and noted that a shot arrow would stay lodged in and retrievable from a tree!... Skyrim, released Nov 2011, and I am so jaded by cheap ass, unified ammo, lazy scripted shooters that something seen back in 1998 comes as a surprise to me.
Now will an arrow be retrievable from a tree in thief 4. Actually, are arrows even retrievable at all in thief 4, has anyone said? I am disgusted I have to ask that question. From all the gameplay footage so far, I don’t think I have even seen NuGarret miss his target.
june gloom on 14/2/2014 at 11:55
When was the last game to use unified ammo that wasn't Deus Ex Invisible War?
gkkiller on 14/2/2014 at 12:01
Quote Posted by Goldmoon Dawn
They think they can just put the player on rails through the cinematic velvet story that they are just dying to tell, all the while classic and meaningful game play falls by the wayside. Here is an interesting aside: we have a guy in ThiefGen who never heard anything about Thief until NuThief came along recently. He then traced its roots back to Dark Project and began playing Thief Gold. Now, he is doing well, he gets it, which makes a lot of old timers envious of that virgin run.
Since this guy is getting a proper crash course in Thief, 16 years after the fact, what do you think his opinion on NuThief will be? If he sees right through it, what could that mean?
It's nice to see that I'm getting around :) assuming, of course, that I'm the one you're talking about :P
I'm close to the end of TG, btw, and overall, I think I can safely say it's one of the most amazing games I've ever played.
My opinion on NuThief so far? They're doing an ok job. It's not going to go down great with classic taffers, but it'll be a good game on its own. The sneakiness feels diluted and the gameplay revolves more around nonlethal stealth-action (at least the way they're hyping it) than simply pure stealth, and contextual jumping is a turn-off (not big enough to keep me from playing it, though). The lack of Stephen Russell, I'm somewhat neutral on - I haven't been a fan of the series for so long that I connect solely his voice and Garrett's - but I do like the way he sounds, and him sticking around would've been great.
I think EM is honestly trying to make a Thief game; they're just focused a little more on modernising it and making it accessible. I think they misinterpreted the old games' 'freedom'. Old Thief gave you freedom by dropping you in a big open space, and letting you choose how you want to go through the rest of the mission. The question of multiple paths came more from the environment and how you navigated it. NuThief is trying to resolve the question of freedom in gameplay by giving you more things to do in a smaller space, which I think won't work too well. Instead of simply stumbling across unexpected cool moments like you would in the old games, NuThief is trying to create unexpected moments, and going about that in the wrong way.
Jason Moyer on 14/2/2014 at 12:59
FWIW, I find the "old school mode" idea kind of misleading, since it's not a separate difficulty or mode called "old school mode". The game just lets you customize the difficulty and hud settings to your liking (and we had details about this ages ago). You can play the game with all of the helper mechanics and full HUD, or set it up to use similar rules to the older Thief gameson Expert, or set it up for custom playstyles (i.e. no being detected, limited use of arrows, no lightgem, etc).
SubJeff on 14/2/2014 at 13:38
Yeah Jason, there isn't a real "old school" mode as such but the options do point to old Thief, if only in the titles of the sections and the options. Tbh I don't think EM have enough knowledge of Thief 1 and 2 to be able to set up a real old school mode. They'd leave auto-save checkpoints in or turn off manual saves for the whole level or something.
Now if they came here and asked that is one thing I think we could ALL agree on. Maybe they'll put it in a patch; it can't be hard to do.
So if we were to have a proper oldschool mode, what would it feature? I'll start. It'd be cool if people stuck to the number convention I'm going to use.
Saving
* Auto save only at the end of a level
* Manual saves allowed anywhere in a level
* Quick save/load allowed
HUD
* No mini-map
* No shroud
* No bow reticle
* No waypoints
* No threat icons
Gameplay
* No focus
* No combat takedowns/takedowns from above
So if you have a new save idea number it accordingly. If you want to modify something here use the same number, add a version number e.g. HUD - 1.1 No minimap unless called up, and then it disappears after a few seconds.
And if anyone finds out what other settings they have (that Legendary list surely goes on more) post them here and I'll update the OP.
