Thief 4 is a prime example of all (or most) of the reasons why I hate modern games

Starker on 2/12/2013 at 00:43

There are stories about silk, linen and other materials having been used to make the removal of arrows easier, but they sound a lot like myths to me.

apostrophe on 4/12/2013 at 23:05

Didn't the mongols mastered silk as effective armor?

dbailey on 23/12/2013 at 06:21

Quote Posted by KoHaN69

I think the people think that 'it's going to be good because deus ex hr was good' have it wrong.
F*** cover mechanics. They're a direct result of shitty controller limitations. All mechanics that disconnect you from the game needs GO.

Anything that 'press x to z' needs to stop. It's much more immersive to walk up a ladder than 'activate climbing mode' and mount to it, or to walk up behind enemies and melee them, instead of 'activating take down'

And there, my friends, is the rub.

With a lot of modern games, instead of actually simulating the world, the game pretends to.
Guards aren't downed when the blackjack's hitbox collides with their head: When the player is behind them, they're given the option to play a "guard takeout" cutscene.
Rope arrows can't stick into any soft surface: They stick into predefined points only.
Instead of managing visibility with a combination of line-of-sight, proximity, lighting and stance, the player's path is laid out in front of them with crates to crouch behind.
Instead of knowing loot is loot because it looks like something that might be valuable, it twinkles, sparkles, and has a gold highlight.
Instead of organically climbing onto and jumping off ladders, you climb on at the bottom and climb to the top, and vice versa.
Consequences for your actions don't make themselves apparent hours later: The game gives you a dialog choice: "GOOD KARMA ACTION OR BAD KARMA ACTION?".

It comes down to a question of scripting versus simulation- and in the development of a risk-free AAA title, developers prefer to go with the scripting route.
Simple cover-based stealth, rope arrow attachment points, and ladders with only two attachment/detachment points are easier to design levels for, because they make it easier to wall the player in and to account for all possibilities. But when these elements are removed, the player loses the resultant freedom and emergent gameplay.

And when considering risk, they also have to consider the players. Remember, they don't care about creating a cult game that a small community feels really passionate about: They want to design a game that sells as many units as possible. That's why any gameplay elements that might confuse players or might be problematic on a console get cut- hence loot glint, obvious karma choices and "Press X to win".

exkeeper on 30/12/2013 at 10:33

First of all , I apologize for the grammar is weak.
I really enjoyed reading your article, Fatspy.
I have long studied the contents of this forum and I am one of the oldest fans of the game.
In my opinion, as fatspy said, beside the things like market driven side of the new version, the linear and action-oriented storyline, and new 'robin hood'ish-"cooler than corvo" character of Garrett, the greatest problem in this version, is the shallow theme and story and the way of telling it, without originality. (yes, We have not played the game yet but at least it already lost to itself through the published trailers).
Version 1 and version 2 and 3 a little bit, in terms of social and religious symbolism and semiotics of medieval times, esoteric sciences, Occult movements, prehistoric mythology, metaphysics,Gnosticism, ancient paganism, Freemasons, the industrial revolution, were very rich or at least it was made with such a cohesiveness and profoundness that untill today it has preserved its inspirational essence and artistic beauty.
After playing 20-30 percent of the series you can feel Garrett's incosistent senses of figuring out the plots and revealing the face of the main enemy, and yet, having anxiety and deep fear that emanated from "his" and "her" invisible sisinster presence behind every move of garrett even with his true experience and skills. From the very begining of the game untill the obscure end ,we, the players, and garrett, THE player, are all beeing WATCHED through "the eye".
I'm not a mystery-freak and occult-lover but you can see the big picture with more transparency after playing "the metal age".
Thief is more than a game. This is something that i've seen in a lot of old fans reviews. For a comprehensive and thorough analysis,it may need more than 10 pages to write about the game ,and it will bother ,but I wish it was sooner and we could make and use an official communication with the group in Montreal and have a more active role and greater impact on the developing progress.
However,I believe that until this website is working at the moment with such a depth and perception, the original concepts that was made by THE genius philosopher-engineer-artists in looking glass studio, will survive.