Thief 4 is a prime example of all (or most) of the reasons why I hate modern games

Darkness_Falls on 27/11/2013 at 16:21

Someone posted a link a while back to a YouTube video of a guy debunking medieval myths used in or perpetuated by present day media (e.g., Hollywood, video games). Pretty sure he had an English accent. I believe he talked about how arrows are shot or launched(?), not fired, or something like that; and maybe how torches weren't used indoors, etc. Anyways, does this ring a bell to anyone? If so, do you knkw where I can find the video(s) again? I think he had a series of them about this stuff. Can't find.

Tomi on 27/11/2013 at 16:51

I think here's the guy that you're looking for:

(http://www.youtube.com/user/lindybeige)

He's got quite a lot of informative and entertaining stuff on his channel, I would recommend everyone to check out some of it. :cool:

Darkness_Falls on 27/11/2013 at 17:30

Yes! That's it, Tomi! Thank u :) For example, here's the torch video I was looking for: (http://youtu.be/HQZqbGME5HY)

And an interesting video regarding long bows: (http://youtu.be/7ZpDIpqDwxI)

Beleg Cúthalion on 28/11/2013 at 07:26

I was a bit sceptical about this guy when I first saw his videos a few years ago, but right now I agree on most of what he says. The longbow video has a nice section on flat aiming starting around 6:50.

Starker on 28/11/2013 at 12:35

Heh, I still meet people who argue that chainmail (or maille as they insist sometimes) is practically useless against arrows.

Here's a good source for various topics on historical weapons: (http://www.myarmoury.com/features.html)

Specifically about chainmail: (http://www.myarmoury.com/feature_mail.html)

Beleg Cúthalion on 28/11/2013 at 16:47

This discussion would be pretty off topic, but to make it short: Metallic armour from the high middle ages was more often than not made of iron or low-carbon-not-yet-proper-steel stuff. So it is completely plausible that both maille shirts/leggings and e.g. helmets could be pierced by arrows, bolts of sword cuts. The fallacy in modern thinking (IMHO), however, is to assume that you wear armour to be immune to damage (as if e.g. modern infantry soldiers wore bomb suits). Surviving objects, what we know about martial culture and last but not least common sense points towards that you used skill (or at least shields) to avoid damage and in this case not completely penetrable armour is sufficient for the occasional ricochet or a bad parry.

Starker on 28/11/2013 at 20:39

There are plenty of contemporary accounts confirming that chainmail worn over padding, while not offering 100% protection, was effective against both arrows and sword slashes. There are stories of crusaders looking like pincushions while being none worse for the wear. It was, however, completely ineffective against the blunt force of the sword blows, not to speak of weapons like maces, axes, and hammers.

Beleg Cúthalion on 28/11/2013 at 21:25

I thought the porcupine story was about Byzantines caught in Turkish arrows but it's been a while since I read it. I also agree that it definitely offered protection, otherwise people wouldn't have used it. But most of these test videos on the net appear to show situations for which this stuff wasn't designed: head-on collisions and the like. Maille was remarkably light and thin (I had the chance to inspect a 15th century shirt at a local museum, but others in exhibitions looked just as flimsy; even if we assume that 12th/13th cent. maille was thicker). However, depictions or descriptions of actual padding underneath maille are far more scarce than those which indicate no padding aside from ordinary woollen clothing like cottas. Therefore I consider the gambeson+maille thingy a re-enactment phenomenon, probably based on the experience in re-enactment combat which has its own set of rules.

Starker on 28/11/2013 at 23:51

I was actually thinking about this guy's accounts of the 3rd crusade, but there are certainly more contemporary accounts: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baha_ad-Din_ibn_Shaddad)

The modern tests seem mostly pretty sloppy to me; it almost seems that they are out to prove one side or the other.

Btw, do you listen to Dan Carlin at all? I discovered his Hardcore History podcast last year and wait eagerly for each new instalment.

Edit: here's a link to the podcast archive for anyone who's interested in checking it out: (http://www.dancarlin.com//disp.php?page=hharchive)

FatSpy on 2/12/2013 at 00:10

Didn't they use to wear some form of elastic to make it easier to remove arrows should someone get shot?