Thief (4) Features. What we know is in, what we know is out.

SubJeff on 22/4/2013 at 17:42

For further info look at what people say here:

(http://uk.gamespot.com/forums/topic/26527415)

and here

(http://www.quartertothree.com/game-talk/archive/index.php/t-11381.html)

Pretty much confirms what I say.

I know that conceptually the approach is different - you get sucked in, you have freedom of movement, you can see your hands, etc.

But practically if you were in a lockpicking race you do this for all three games: Select operator. Test. Continue using if correct, change operator if not. Repeat.

The logical steps you go through in your mind and with your hands are the same. Select, test, alter if needed.

Why do I labour the point? Well, because Thief 3 appeared to offer a more subtle and skillful method. Initially it looks like that sweetspot could be anywhere in the circle of tumblers, but it never is. I'm not the only one who found it disappointingly easy for this reason.

Thankfully it looks like this new version is going to be a departure.

Renault on 22/4/2013 at 18:22

Why do you say the new version will be a departure? (and by that, I assume you mean it will be better too). All I've heard so far is that it's a "mini game" and that there will be a graphical overlay.

I think the ideal setup would be to have simple lockpicking, ala the first two games, for basic doors within a building where guards are patrolling, and then have a more complicated, mini-game type lock for the big score, a safe or timelock or something like that. Either way, I really hope that both are real-time and allow the player to be caught, unlike Fallout/Skyrim.

Springheel on 22/4/2013 at 18:41

Quote:

As for diagonals - have you ever tried pursuing two keys at once? You should, you can get things like capital letters and everything!

Is that your sarcastic way of admitting that there are diagonals and that you can select them with the wasd keys? Which two do I have to press at once?

Also, your own links contradict your claim of there being only 4 (or even only 8) points:

Quote:

sweet spots are typically at the four compass points. Less frequently they will be at the NW, NE, SE, or SW points. Occasionally they'll be off these points far enough where you can't just check the eight points and you need to move the pick around a little,

Quote Posted by Subjective Effect

But practically if you were in a lockpicking race you do this for all three games: Select operator. Test. Continue using if correct, change operator if not. Repeat.

Yep, and checkers and chess are practically the same too.

I don't think anyone is arguing that they can't be reduced to the same basic components, the point is whether you're ignoring significant differences when you do so. A number of people seem to see the addition of player skill and attention into the mix to be a significant difference. YMMV.

SubJeff on 22/4/2013 at 18:55

Well I only ever used wasd so I dispute there being more than 8 points.

If there were then at that point I would accept that differentiates the mechanic enough from the old version. 8 points, fwiw, is the limit for functional comparison because any greater granularity alters the player skill requirement out of the "select, test, wait, repeat" pattern.

Chess and draughts are only superficially related, the actual mechanics are very different.

Goldmoon Dawn on 22/4/2013 at 21:40

Quote Posted by Subjective Effect

Stick that in your wutpipe and smoke it, Einstein. This is exactly why the only thing of worth you have to offer is your extensive knowledge of the levels and the lore. Your opinions on gameplay elements are worthless.

What you are doing here is using what you *thought* was a sure win against jtr7 as a vehicle to spit venom at the poor guy. To make matters worse, your intentions arent even veiled! What the hell man!!! All I am saying is dude, quit picking on jtr7! You have a lot of good opinions to offer on the topic of classic Thief gaming, so why ruin it with stuff like this? I happen to think that jtr7s opinions on gameplay elements have always been thought provoking and are highly relevant to the cause at hand.

SubJeff on 22/4/2013 at 22:58

If he'd thought about what I said and replied reasonably, like Springheel did, he'd have had a discussion with me, like Spring.

But no, he had to start with the wuts and whatnot.

And that is all I have to say on that matter.

SubJeff on 22/4/2013 at 23:06

Quote Posted by Brethren

No, I don't know if it'll be better. It could be worse and if we absolutely can't look around whilst doing it that would be worse. I just think the original system could be improved upon. Look at TDM - that has a great system. IMHO its far far superior to the system in any Thief game, and hats off to whoever came up with it. Now THAT is an example of a very well thought out functional system.

Heck, EM could have bought the idea off TDM.

Goldmoon Dawn on 23/4/2013 at 01:03

Quote Posted by Subjective Effect

The picking Thief 1 and 2 is the same as in Thief 3, the only difference is you only had 2 options instead of 4. Otherwise functionally it's identical. Don't be fooled by the graphics.

Quote Posted by jtr7

wut

Hardly any part of that statement is correct.

Quote Posted by Subjective Effect

...
Stick that in your wutpipe and smoke it, Einstein. This is exactly why the only thing of worth you have to offer is your extensive knowledge of the levels and the lore. Your opinions on gameplay elements are worthless.

It hardly seems like a justified response, and everyone pretty much agreed that you were wrong anyway or something. You go from 0 to 100 in 2 seconds! Why so tough man?

Vae on 23/4/2013 at 01:37

Quote Posted by Subjective Effect

Look at TDM - that has a great system. IMHO its far far superior to the system in any Thief game, and hats off to whoever came up with it. Now THAT is an example of a very well thought out functional system.

I always wondered if my "audible mini-game" idea was picked, or was it simply synchronicity?...(http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=97203) Randomized Locks and Traps...as noted here, in concert with other relational concepts.

jtr7 on 23/4/2013 at 01:44

TDM has shown the way! Don't lock the player into the lockpicking mode, leave the eyes and ears open to the world around without needing to disengage with a button, let the player choose where to stand as long as it's reasonable for the task, moving the character in any way should always be limited by terrain not a minigame. Garrett's hands shouldn't be glued to the picks, needing a button to let go, and looking around the room or maneuvering during picking shouldn't require a step in-between. Garrett's eyes aren't important to the task once lockpicking has started, so leave them to the player and the gamespace.