Thief (4) Features. What we know is in, what we know is out. - by SubJeff
Starker on 25/7/2013 at 04:36
Quote Posted by ZylonBane
I would like to know what problem they think they're solving by making jump a contextual action. Smells like some nitwit on the dev team is a little too eager to prove himself.
Apparently it broke immersion.
...
Yeah.
Quote Posted by Chade
You have journalists doing the sorts of things that would require jumping in early games, and not complaining about it. You can't just say that they wouldn't have jumped in the demo: they are directly talking about taking analogous actions while playing the demo.
Maybe each spot where they wanted to jump had a contextual jump placed there? Demos are carefully crafted experiences. I'm just saying that given such a short time and not many reasons to jump "just because" they wouldn't have necessarily noticed that it was missing.
Quote Posted by Chade
And yeah, I'm sure that if they tried to "dick around" the story may be different. But that's kinda the point. If you have to muck around to see something, it's not core gameplay is it? You didn't have to muck around to see the use of jumping in earlier games. Depending on level, of course. Bonehoard, part of Assassins, The Sword, etc ... you play those games in the normal way, just getting through the level, you're going to be jumping. Likewise with the thief 4 E3 demo, from all reports you're using analogous actions just getting through the level. No mucking around required.
If what you are saying is true, then jumping is not part of core gameplay any more. I'm not sure exactly how this lessens your concerns.
jtbalogh on 25/7/2013 at 05:10
His eagerness to combine actions into one contextual console button might be just a teaser.
Wait for the "jumping moment" ...
(1) He has yet to unleash a larger impression with the zombie hands. Jump's old button is now free to adjust the mask and rub the non-mechanical eye with zombie hands on command. Looks cool to non-thieves.
(2) His changes help inexorably introduce reactive punishment in the training grounds, so anyone still inept enough to jump the old way is visibly impaired with the immediate feedback of zombie hands.
(3) The big finale is the realization of the "jumping moment". You thought it was safe to jump and get your eyes and view covered for a second. As the suspense passes, you think, "good, there was no jump or I would have been {insert colorful slang}"
Chade on 25/7/2013 at 05:51
Quote Posted by Starker
Maybe each spot where they wanted to jump had a contextual jump placed there?
Yes, of course. Which provides evidence for one of EM's claims that I was initially extremely skeptical of, which is that you could jump anywhere you would want to.
(And presumably, evidence that the E3 demo didn't contain the old tile / carpet combo ...)
Anyway, the main argument is ...
Quote Posted by Starker
If what you are saying is true, then jumping is not part of core gameplay any more. I'm not sure exactly how this lessens your concerns.
Well, jumping isn't intrinsically valuable. It's valuable because it brings experiences that work well within a thief game:
- moving around like a prototypical fictional thief,
- being rewarded for paying attention to the environment and seeing non-obvious routes, and
- it's just something I have been conditioned to expect when moving avatars around a 3d environment.
So when I'm concerned about auto jumping, I'm not concerned about jumping for it's own sake, I'm concerned that:
- the way Garrett moves around won't feel special,
- when I see a non-obvious route, I'll try it out and it won't be possible, and
- I'm controlling a person in 3d game space and can't use the standard jump command? wtf?
However, these concerns are largely theoretical. The actual data at hand from people who have played the game currently provides no evidence to support the concerns, and some evidence that contradict them: evidence that other abilities in thief 4 are acceptable substitutes for the standard jump command.
So now, like preachers arguing for the god of the gaps, we start saying ok, people didn't notice these things straight away, but they'll notice after playing an hour, or playing in a different style, etc. And I still think this will be true to some extent: these concerns will prove valid for some playstyles and in some circumstances. But overall I'm less concerned. In my mind, the issue is now more on par with the rope arrow restrictions. One of the worst things I've heard, but not clearly the number one worst thing.
Azaran on 25/7/2013 at 21:54
I love how calm and collected the Haunt is
Dia on 2/8/2013 at 00:33
That picture's a joke, right?
:weird:
