Thief (4) Features. What we know is in, what we know is out. - by SubJeff
skacky on 20/7/2013 at 23:27
Contrarian is an obvious troll. :p
SubJeff on 21/7/2013 at 00:01
I'd add him to my ignore list but there doesn't seem to be one there.
biskit has started some lame smokescreen thread on there. I don't know if its to detract from the thread on contextual actions but it sure is weak sauce.
Renault on 21/7/2013 at 00:10
I traded PMs with Contrarian over on the EM boards, he is a beauty for sure. He's been banned multiple times over here, and of course it's all because he speaks out against the majority opinion. :rolleyes:
But his arguments are just bizarre, it's like he's more in favor of keeping EM in business than he is in seeing a good, playable Thief game produced. Now that's a new one. It doesn't really seem like he's intentionally trolling, but given his username, it may just all be a big game to him.
Dia on 21/7/2013 at 00:37
Just clicked on the link Shinrazero provided (yeah, I'm lazy, so what) and I have to say that I am SO proud of all our TTLG Taffers posting over there I could just burst. You kids are presenting yourselves so positively and therefore representing TTLG in a positive light too. Kudos to you guys!
I'm not surprised to see the likes of Master Taffer and The Tingler justifying everything EM is doing with the game and singing the praises of the demo; I don't think it would go over very well with the Boss if they didn't. I take exception to Master Taffer's statement that "That type of stuff (feeling constrained, immersion, etcetera) are "in the moment" sensations". Immersion should begin within the first few minutes after starting a game and continue on through til the end of the game, not be subjected to being experienced in fits and starts. That's NOT immersion. Feeling constrained could very well be defined as an 'in the moment sensation'; however, that 'in the moment sensation' could also last for the majority of the player's playthru which would contribute towards the player's dissatisfaction with said game. Not so 'in the moment' afterall.
Another thing MT posted that bothered me was "I thought it was weird that he couldn't swim after being able to in 1 and 2. Then I put it out of my mind, and enjoyed the game a lot more because of it." I'm curious to know just how much of T4 that wasn't anything like the original games bothered him that he put out of his mind? Are we expected to accept that T4 is indeed a true Thief game, but at the same time put out of our mind all aspects of T4 that don't ring true to the original Thief games; aspects that were once important to us such as swimmable water, being able to jump, mantle, & lean at will, go from point A to point C and D in a roundabout route we choose, and place rope arrows where ever there is a wooden surface? In that case, we wouldn't be playing a Thief game imo, just a Thief cheap (in an expensive sort of way) imitation and wannabe. You can't have both EM; T4 will either remain true to the core elements of Thief or it won't. And it isn't sounding as though it's remaining true to anything but the prospect of making the almighty buck at this point. As well as looking to be something resembling a trainwreck.
But all you guys did so well in presenting your (our) concerns so very clearly, precisely and logically that, well, I've never been more proud to call you my friends.
SE; at this moment I would like to get you in a bear hug and kiss your cheeks.
Azaran on 21/7/2013 at 00:37
He won't get banned there that's for sure. He sounds like a yes-man for EM. I bet he actually works for them and they put him there on purpose.
Azaran on 21/7/2013 at 00:42
Quote Posted by Azaran
I bet he actually works for them and they put him there on purpose.
From his profile:
I'm an insider. I know more than the average person when it comes to this business. Presently employed in the entertainment industry, I know the ins and outs of marketing and PR. I also have a few connections.Specter on 21/7/2013 at 01:25
Quote Posted by Azaran
From his profile:
I'm an insider. I know more than the average person when it comes to this business. Presently employed in the entertainment industry, I know the ins and outs of marketing and PR. I also have a few connections.That's someone with an over-inflated ego. I doubt he has any connection to anything of import. Anyone who is well connected would not remain so if they advertised it.
Quote Posted by Brethren
I traded PMs with Contrarian over on the EM boards, he is a beauty for sure. He's been banned multiple times over here, and of course it's all because he speaks out against the majority opinion. :rolleyes:
But his arguments are just bizarre, it's like he's more in favor of keeping EM in business than he is in seeing a good, playable Thief game produced. Now
that's a new one. It doesn't really seem like he's intentionally trolling, but given his username, it may just all be a big game to him.
This argument has come up a few times before. "We should support them! We would never get another Thief without them! To not support them is to kill the franchise!" This has to be the most flawed thinking in gaming. The notion that "take my money no matter what" can lead to anything positive has clearly never run into COD and Assassins Creed yearly releases. It is the simplest of ideas; if someone wishes to sell a product, there is no greater feedback than sales numbers. How the hell does buying a flawed product encourage companies to change those flaws?!
Azaran on 21/7/2013 at 01:37
Quote Posted by Specter
That's someone with an over-inflated ego. I doubt he has any connection to anything of import. Anyone who is well connected would not remain so if they advertised it.
Yeah it's just that he's stuck on defending Eidos to the death, it looks suspicious.
Dia on 21/7/2013 at 01:48
Quote Posted by Specter
How the hell does buying a flawed product encourage companies to change those flaws?!
It bothered me that Master Taffer claimed he '
thought it was weird that he couldn't swim after being able to in 1 and 2.' but '
Then I put it out of my mind, and enjoyed the game a lot more because of it.' It's this kind of attitude that's going to get us absolutely nowhere. Since he obviously had EM's ear as far as feedback on the demo is concerned, why didn't he speak up? Because non-swimmable water wasn't important to him? What about the rest of us Taffers, then? As EM is repeatedly claiming that T4 is a real Thief game, I'd think they'd
want to know when they screw up by doing stuff like making water non-swimmable for NuGarrett. It's kinda scary to think that EM is only going to listen to the likes of MT because he's a 'real Thief fan' (as well as a moderator at their Thief forum and a sometime member at TTLG), when what may
not matter to him (though he may be just trying to back EM to the hilt and not make too many waves?) matters to greatly to the majority of us Taffers. I don't remember nominating Master Taffer as my spokesperson to EM and would have trusted more in the honest opinions of Taffers like SE, Chade, and Renz had they played the demo; MT just comes across sounding like an EM suckup with that statement.
So disheartening.
P.S. I wrote Contrarian off after reading the first sentence of his post in that thread. What a tool.
