Thief (4) Features. What we know is in, what we know is out.

Esme on 20/7/2013 at 09:27

Quote Posted by Chade

I regard that as a weakness in the original games, bordering on an exploit. IIRC, wasn't it fixed in thief 3? I hope you can't do it in thief 4.

Why ? The AI react to noise, they are supposed to.

As for fixing it, either someone works out a way to tell the difference between accidental noise made by the player and deliberate noise made by the player or someone engineers out the ability to make a noise altogether which kinda takes any skill out of the equation.

Quote Posted by Subjective Effect

Where did Esme say anything about using the blackjack on them?...

I did occasionally do this I must admit, but most times it was sufficient just for the AI to have moved so I could get past them.

I should point out I never resorted to this in the original missions it was only in fan missions where the designer was bound and determined to try and make me fight an AI by putting them in really awkward places with good sight lines.

I see it as no worse than picking up a bottle and throwing it to distract an AI.

As for standing in the shadows and making noise so they come to the place where you are and KOing them.

When they get close enough, they go on search alert regardless of whether they can see you or not, because they are in proximity to the place where the noise came from, this distance is further than you can reach with a BJ, and you can't BJ an alerted AI, plus if you are still there there's a very good chance they'll find you.

You have to wait until they give up and then find a place you can attack from, if you are lucky.

The tactic I used was make a noise at point A, retire to point B, wait for the AI to arrive at point A and sneak past while they searched, although as I say I would occasionally take them out.

It's a lot riskier than throwing a bottle but essentially the same idea.

nickie on 20/7/2013 at 09:55

I hope I'm not mistaking what you're saying Esme but certainly in Fan Missions you can blackjack an alerted AI when they come close looking for you. Sometimes they'll see you but more often than not they won't or at least not soon enough to avoid a blackjack. But even if they do see me, they still drop. I do it all the time when I'm testing and need a cleared space to check things out. It's quicker than waiting for someone to be in a convenient position. I've done it several times this morning already. :)

Chade on 20/7/2013 at 10:45

Quote Posted by Subjective Effect

So it's blackjacking alert AI that you have issue with, not making noise by jumping?

Yeah, exactly. I was just lazy and didn't read Esme's post properly, and thought she was hoping this exploit still worked. Obviously that wasn't right. So yeah, nothing to see here...

Esme, I would be extremely surprised if guards noticed doors opening but didn't notice sounds. Apart from needing to find another way to generate sounds, I'm sure you'll be fine.

Why, not reacting to sound would be as silly as not being able to jump!

Chade on 20/7/2013 at 12:01

Double post ahoy!

Quote Posted by Brethren

I'm amazed, the contextual jumping stuff is even swaying the difficult-to-convince Chade. I'm sure it won't last. ;)

Damn straight. Give me a day or two, I'm sure I'll be able to think up some reason why this is the best thing since sliced bread. :cool:

Quote Posted by Brethren

I'm going to pick on Jerion a little more here.

I think this is a little unfair. After all, how did the old-school thief fan RPS journalist do reporting this information? What about the thief fans at sneaky bastards? Polygon?

Here's what RPS had to say about "verticality", which I presume would have been the spot to launch into a rant about jumping:

Quote Posted by RPS

My Experience: This comment [EM claims verticality in thief is awesome] actually aligned with reality quite well. Even the first area - which contained a giant, courtyard-spanning wall that may as well have bellowed “CLIMB ME” - forced me to briefly pop down into guards' patrol path before climbing stairs into the next area. Successive portions of the mansion's outside and inside more or less proceeded accordingly, with the option to scale objects presenting itself fairly often, but not as thinly veiled rainbow paths through the skies. Instead, I tended to use walls, crates, and the like as vantage points - both for shooting out torches and getting a bead on guards' locations.

It was in these moments that Nu-Thief truly shined, allowing me to dart and duck between the highest highs and lowest lows, blending with the shadows and meticulously plotting my way through each maze of guards and poorly trimmed shrubbery. During a few moments of particularly successful distraction and deception, it was like I really was the darkness, spreading to whatever surface I pleased and reducing grown men to frightened children. Despite the E3 build's countless rough edges and general glitchiness, Thief was pretty tough in places. When I bent my surroundings to my will and ghosted my way right past particularly well-positioned opposition, I felt like I'd really earned it.

Yep, really feeling the limitations there. Let's be kinder to Jerion ... at least he noticed.

SubJeff on 20/7/2013 at 12:16

Quote Posted by Goldmoon Dawn

Have you been drinking man?!?!

Here, Ill put the two posts together for you, since you obviously cant be bothered to read what anyone other than you posts.

Ahem

Quote Posted by Chade

Yeah, exactly. I was just lazy and didn't read Esme's post properly, and thought she was hoping this exploit still worked. Obviously that wasn't right. So yeah, nothing to see here...

Goldmoon, I stand by my previous assessment regarding your intellect. Lacking.

Goldmoon Dawn on 20/7/2013 at 15:57

Here is your apology Subjective Effect.

Can you see what this botched development is doing to us hardcore true fans?!?! I sure as hell aint perfect, and its so close to the full moon! But, since you clearly cant even recognize the masterful tenets of the Hammers, I will just call it even, and move on.

:joke:

Renault on 20/7/2013 at 16:09

Quote Posted by Goldmoon Dawn

But, since you clearly cant even recognize the masterful tenets of the Hammers, I will just call it even, and move on.
:joke:

I don't think it's that he didn't recognize them, it's more that he thinks you're a lunatic for reciting them. And for using them to make your point (if you even had one).

Esme on 20/7/2013 at 16:20

Quote Posted by nickie

Hmm, I was sure that didn't work last time I tried it .... must have fluffed the BJ or not been quite as hidden as I thought ... oh well I'll just have to have another go

nickie on 20/7/2013 at 16:33

The more I've done it, the easier it's got so it's not often I mess it up now. But I think it has a lot to do with the way they're set up. Today, some dumbcluck walked straight into me as I was standing over 2 bodies and didn't pay a blind bit of attention. Which reminds me I need to report that - it's far too dozy.

Goldmoon Dawn on 20/7/2013 at 16:53

Quote Posted by Brethren

I don't think it's that he didn't recognize them, it's more that he thinks you're a lunatic for reciting them. And for using them to make your point (if you even had one).

Oh yeah? Well I *do* think he didnt recognize them. You probably didnt either. And what exactly is new here, about my fanatical approach to a video game message board? I have to accept that you guys are basically clueless in general about Thief and LGS, so you can swallow a little fanaticism from time to time.