Thief (4) Features. What we know is in, what we know is out. - by SubJeff
SlySpy on 19/7/2013 at 18:52
The inability to jump wherever I want to jump comes to me as possibly even worse news than when I found out there was going to be a focus mode. I don't think you could even finish the previous Thief games without freeform jumping in some manner. Now jumping is restricted to when the developers tell me I can jump, and it's tied to the swoop button, which by the way, is another function that bothers me for a different reason.
Splinter Cell has lost jumping; Hitman has lost jumping; but I never would've expected Thief, a game that I'd argue is more reliant on basic movement freedoms than the previous two games I just mentioned, becoming restrictive in terms of platforming. It's like eliminating the ability to strafe in an FPS game.
If this is EM's approach to something as mind numbingly basic as a bunny hop, then I shutter to imagine how restrictive the rest of the game is. At this point, emergent gameplay is looking less and less likely.
Shit, the Dishonored comparisons from people might disappear now; at least that game let me run, jump, and teleport wherever I wanted within reason.
Renault on 19/7/2013 at 19:03
I'm going to pick on Jerion a little more here. Ah, the cost of being an EM moderator and getting an all expenses paid trip to E3: :cheeky: This is in response to someone in the forums asking about jumping and climbing. As nicely as he tried to state it, it paints an ugly picture:
Quote:
In the form we saw at E3, it was comprehensively supported. It wasn't free-form, but if you expected to be able to jump from point a to point b, or to be able to climb up to a location, chances were very good that you could do it or a way to get there existed. It didn't get in the way, but was lacking something. As far as jumping goes, "it lacked support for player stupidity" might be a way of looking at it. Annoying but not game-breakingly so; this isn't a platformer. Climbing was the place where I would have liked less in the way of fixed points and more of self-determined climbing. In the bottom-left corner of the first screenshot (the garden), the little metal lattice piece is a doodad that signposted where you could find purchase to climb up. I should point out though that it's not as though you could *only* climb up at places with one of those lattice doodads.
"chances were very good that you could do it" - Well that's a relief! What do you put the odds at, 60/40?
"it lacked support for player stupidity" - nothing like taking any and all risks out of the game - wouldn't want it to be dangerous or anything.
"this isn't a platformer" - err, so if it's not Mario, we shouldn't be able to jump? :tsktsk:
Again, this doesn't sound like someone who has been a Thief fan for years, it reads like someone who's just been introduced to the series recently.
SlySpy on 19/7/2013 at 19:12
I remember that guy in particular from the DXHR forums. He frequented that area much more then the Thief 4 area, and he blindly defended EM's every decision there as well, so I don't think it matters if he's played the previous games or not; it probably wouldn't have changed his perspective on the matter.
SubJeff on 19/7/2013 at 19:48
Player stupidity in this case means player choice.
Doing this shows they just don't get it.
I wish Dishonored had mod tools.
Esme on 19/7/2013 at 21:49
Quote:
... but if you expected to be able to jump from point a to point b ...
I'd quite like the ability to jump from point a
to point aFor the reasons I stated earlier
Goldmoon Dawn on 19/7/2013 at 22:59
Quote Posted by Brethren
What the hell? I can't think of a single reason why they would they design a Thief game (any game!) this way. I can't even think of any other modern first person game that has any kind of restrictions like this. DXHR, Dishonored, Far Cry, Skyrim, Fallout New Vegas, Crysis, even Bioshock Infinite - these games all allow it. These game all have far more freedom of movement than New Thief will. Let me repeat:
Bioshock Infinite will allow more freedom in player movement than New Thief will. The most linear piece of shit game I've ever paid $60 for, and New Thief will make it look like Stalker.
What happened to sticking to the DNA?
I still believe what I originally thought the first time I read what these guys were saying: They watched the videos in Thief: The Dark Project and decided that was what Thief was all about, never bothering to open the game itself. This guy is talking like it is extremely complicated to play Thief! Thief had one of the most stripped down game play models and easy to use interfaces I have ever seen in a game, before or since. They obviously never played this game! Seriously, what other explanation could there be for the way they have not only dismissed the classic time tested game play but have even insulted it in some cases!
Dia on 19/7/2013 at 23:11
EM reps have been dismissing and even insulting the original Thief games since they started giving interviews about T4, imo. One part that stands out in my mind is where reference is made to not wanting roof-top travel and travel through the city streets to become boring (it's inferred that such travel is indeed boring, btw) to players new to Thief, which is why EM is implementing parkour for rooftops and timed speed-runs through city streets - to keep the interest of those new players. Just push a button and watch NuGarrett go! I've been seriously doubting that most of the T4 devs have done more than watch the cutscenes in the original Thief games since EM started releasing T4 info this year.
No thank you.
Esme on 19/7/2013 at 23:23
This jumping issue has reminded me of something else.
I have on occasion deliberately made noise to pull AI out of position by using my BJ or even the sword on something noisy like a metal or wooden surface, can anyone confirm if that still works or not in T4 ?
Goldmoon Dawn on 20/7/2013 at 01:40
As the new Thief team was assembled, EM thought that it would be inspiring to have the team get together and play Thief: The Dark Project for the first time, so they could act credible. The results were mixed, but out of the ashes sprang concrete decisions. Daniel Windfeld Schmidt is on hand to field a few questions from the fans:
Daniel, could you describe the people as they were finally playing Thief: The Dark Project for the first time?!
“It took a while to learn the complex controls. Numbers 1,2,3,4 - There were different types of peeking: peeking forward, peeking sideways, peeking upside down. They had all these things that were very complex and it worked for the hardcore gamers, but a lot of people backed off early on because it was very difficult."
:ebil:
